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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,095

    Location: Leeds

    But the bus didn't promise anything, it made a statement "We send £350m to the EU, let's fund the NHS instead". If I say 'we're spending £100 a month on an iPhone, let's pay the Sky bill instead', it doesn't necessarily mean we would spend the entire amount on the Sky bill, especially if I'm not the actual bill payer or person in charge of the finances as the Leave campaign wasn't in charge of any government spending. It was a general statement that remainers are choosing to take literally so they can have a dig.
     
  2. terley

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,232

    Why do you always take examples as the person saying "THIS IS THE BENCHMARK", it was just a bloody example man.. I believe a true racist is a true racist, they are obvious and easy to spot for being racist.. The word should be used appropriately else it wont mean anything anymore.
     
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,695

    The literal promise would have been repugnant, we don't live in a black-white world, so literal statements aren't the measure of a political policy, implication matters.
     
  4. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    Erm because they're not liars, the definition of a lie is making an intentionally false statement, it's provable that Boris intentionally made a false statement with that £350m on the bus as he continued to make that statement even after being told it was wrong, you'd need to prove that the other people you're referring to intentionally made a false statement, something i suspect you can't do.
     
  5. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,095

    Location: Leeds

    But the Conservatives have pledged the money? May literally said they would increase spending by £20bn. Where's the actual problem?
     
  6. loftie

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 17, 2009

    Posts: 704

    Labour came first with 31%, BXP second with 29%. That is an overwhelming majority voting for Labour. Not only that, the BXP failed to win a seat that is very much pro leave against a party that has been flip flopping all over the place along with it's troubles of discrimination, whilst having no manifesto to put voters off and promising to deliver a WTO brexit which every leave voter wants and voted for. Sure, they beat the conservatives, but they've been in worse disarray than labour.

    Metaphorically speaking, this is like a race where conservatives and labour have had their legs covered in concrete, have been blindfolded and sent in the wrong direction and yet BXP still only came second. They should have stomped all over the main parties, and failing that, they should have at least won the seat.

    I'm still waiting for the socialist education brainwashing signs btw, otherwise how else can I watch out for it?
     
  7. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    Yes it did, a reasonable person (in the legal sense) would most likely interpret the words "let us" as a statement or implication of the intention to do something, and as a promise is an indication that something is likely to occur then I'd bet my bottom dollar that any court in the land would find that it was indeed a promise.

    And no, it's not a general statement that people are choosing to take literally so they can have a dig, it was a statement that the UKSA said was misleading and undermines trust in official statistics, it was an intentionally false statement, it was a lie.
     
  8. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    ok so standing in front of a poster with "breaking point" on it showing entirely dark skinned people trudging in a line across a field who are clearly refugees so have literally zero to do with the EU in an almost shot for shot copy of a poster used by the Nazis to turn people against jews very obviously going for a "wink wink they're not like you" thing isn't racist?

    riiiiiiiight :rolleyes:
     
  9. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,652

    It is the schools that do not have their children singing "Tomorrow belongs to me" every day.
    (From Cabaret)
     
  10. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,931

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.

    [​IMG]


    and

    https://www.indy100.com/article/peo...sembling-outright-nazi-propaganda--WkTYUB18EW
     
  11. terley

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,232

    Nope, just very very poor taste.. The word racist should be reserved for actual racists.
     
  12. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,284

    Location: Cambridge

    Farage isn't a racist, but he seems quite content to stir the pot and benefit from the support of those that are acutely xenophobic and/or racist.
     
  13. terley

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,232

    I wont argue with that, and given that.. those who call him a "racist facist" are just absolute morons.

    There is absolutely no doubt that people who are xenophobic or racist like the idea of nationalism and closed borders, but you don't need to be a xenophobe or racist to want more nationalism and tighter border controls, people are so polarized today they don't acknowledge that grey areas exist.

    I am sure that many VERY dangerous far left communists and anarchists share some values with corbyn and would vote for him... That doesn't mean Corbyn is a dangerous far left communist.. (despite what many may try and say)
     
  14. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Fine fine..

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,284

    Location: Cambridge

    There are valid reasons for border control, only none of them are applicable in the EU context.
     
  16. Lord-Jaffa

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

    Posts: 5,396

    Location: UK

    It's already lost any meaning with how it's used nowadays.
     
  17. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,767

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Farage is absolutely a open racist. How else do you interpret his "I wouldn't want a Romanian for a neighbour" comments? It's naked racism. The breaking point poster was equally xenophobic. His private comments are reported to be worse.

    I don't think he's a fascist. He's just quite happy to chum with Fascists when it suits him. Witness how close he is to fascists like Bannon, or how he chummed around with the far-right parties of Europe, or just look at the state of UKIP now he's stopped trying to marshal them into having a more acceptable face for the cameras? Do you think he didn't know what these people thought? Of course he did.
     
  18. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    lol they only won by 683 votes, 400 people voted UKIP so Labour scraped home a win.
     
  19. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,047

    That example is not an example of racism.

    An example of racism would be the parent killing the coloured person because they are a different race to their daughter.

    Killing their daughter is more likely a cultural or religious driven act, not racist.

    Assuming of course you meant a genetic parent and child, not a step parent/child situation, in which case, racism could posdibly be part of it.
     
  20. Entai

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Feb 28, 2004

    Posts: 72,047


    Can you not count

    They INCREASED their majority over the result in 2017 general election.

    That is not scraping home a win.

    The issue brexiteers should be worried about, is how they are lucky they did not get beaten by more.

    Nearly 14 000 less people voted in this by-election compared to 2017.

    As brexiteers are usually very vocal about getting their point across, I'd be very surprised if it was not the case that every person who was going to vote BXP did vote, and that all the 14,000 had they voted, would have for other parties NOT the BXP.