1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 27,964

    Location: Surrey

    It is quite astonishing. Just reading his responses and he is claiming now that it doesnt matter if it was a Mercedes or a Skoda. Why lie and say it was a Mercedes? In fact why mention a brand at all if it doesn't matter?

    Of course we all know why he said it was a Mercedes. It is just incredible to watch him try and claim he meant nothing by it.
     
  2. Conscript

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2004

    Posts: 8,980

    Location: Kent

    I read through some of the replies to that thread and it's scary. People calling him out on obvious factual errors are being dismissed as "delusional remoaners", and people are still slapping him on the back as some hero for exposing a non-existent conspiracy.
    How are people this ignorant?
     
  3. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,126

    When you use propaganda techniques, you can quite literally get people to vote for things that will hurt themselves, their families, their livelihoods, their country and prospects.

    Just like all those farmers that voted out in certain areas of the country who now can't find anyone to pick their crops, and are asking from where the EU money they've rejected is going to be replaced. These are the farmers, steel men and car workers who voted for people who literally said it would be the end of farming, steel production, and car manufacture in the UK. Sick people who currently benefit from the NHS, voted for people who are on film saying that we must have expensive health insurance and that US companies should come in and break up the NHS.

    It's easier than ever to manipulate people when you can get to them via the internet and social media more easily than you ever could before. The likes of Cambridge Analytica and Russian troll farms exist for a reason, and that's to manipulate people to do what benefits Russia and other special interest groups with money to spend and agendas to realise, even if it's against the UK and it's citizens' interests.
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,645

    The techniques used in the internet age are exactly the same used in the past via leaflets or newspapers, it is just easier. People are still as gullible.
     
  5. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,126

    But today people have more free access to information and education than they ever did before. Yet instead of a more informed populace, all we've got is one that's more easily manipulated.
     
  6. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,427

    Location: Back in East London

    Precisely because the freedom to access and distribute information doesn't mean only good information. Bad information is in abundance.
     
  7. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,504

    Location: Midlands

    They believe they are smarter because of the easy access to information, yet all that is, is knowledge access (not necessarily true factual knowledge).

    Knowledge is a small factor in intelligence.
     
  8. ratface

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 30, 2002

    Posts: 950

    Location: At Home

    Indeed, the ERG & BXP are well known for their compassion, empathy, support for workers rights, universal healthcare and the welfare state.

    Therefore Rob you have nothing to be concerned about

    /sarcasm
     
  9. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 13,546

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    Gosh, what a surprise...



    Link for those who have embeds blocked in their browser.

     
  10. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 27,964

    Location: Surrey

    What is really bizarre is the complete and utter acceptance of being lied to. Not just small lies, or statements that are hard to prove as actual lies, but actual 100% provable falsehoods (like the Skoda/Mercedes thing).
     
  11. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,011

    While there are undoubtably some decent people, with decent thinking, who support Brexit, this post encapsulates the very worst of what, unfortunately, makes up a large chunk of the weak-thinking, insecure, fearful mindset that has proven over and over again through the centuries to be so vulnerable to manipulation by nationalist populism.

    What is particularly offensive though, here, is the utter lack of self-awareness in the comments about "indoctrination". This suggests some sort of fanaticism.

    As we all know and see too often, it's the frothing Brexiteers for whom experts, businesses, politicians, and everyone else are all engaged in a conspiracy to talk down Brexit.

    :rolleyes:

    What separates belief from science is the scientific method.

    @McstylisT - I'm willing to bet that this is a challenge beyond you, but...

    Can you use the scientific method to put forward a falsifiable hypothesis that can prove Brexit is or will be a success?

    Simply put, can you put forward an objective metric (or set of metrics) by which you would be happy for Brexit to be judged?

    If you can, then we have a test. If you can't, then Brexit is a faith, a religion, the stuff of indoctrination.
     
  12. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,623

    Location: London

    I wonder how many average Brexiters discount evolution, climate change, the moon landings and that Earth is round.

    I bet you it's a worrying amount.

    @garnett straw man, deflect or ignore. I am still chuckling at...

     
  13. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,448

    Not really, leaflets and newspapers are rather blunt instruments as they generally dissuade as many as they persuade, the internet allows you to precisely target specific groups and even a specific person while avoiding those who would typical rebut that information, it allows you to create an echo-chamber because what's being disseminated is not in the public arena.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  14. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,283

    Location: Cambridge

    Anyone else noticed that Bojo's pledge to raise the higher rate tax threshold is costed at almost the precise amount as our net EU contribution.

    Just saying.

    Let's spend it on the NHS instead ;)
     
  15. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,283

    Location: Cambridge

    It depends. Do any of those things mean less immigration?

    I would think they'd be fond of moon landings since most of them happened in the 70s.
     
  16. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,011

    Or just a flat-out denial of reality...


    Imagine the fear-fuelled blinkers needed to be unable to see through Farage's rhetoric and see the reality of the situation, even when's its so clear and in front of your face.
     
  17. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 30,702

    Money for benefits requires economic stability and a functioning NHS.

    The tories have historically cut funding and brexit will provide economic uncertainty.

    More economic uncertainty = more austerity.

    @robfosters read mcstylists post, then mine (i.e. this short rebuttal). Come to your own conclusion!
     
  18. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 28,979

    Location: Welling, London

    Personally, whether we’re in or out, I truthfully can’t see disability benefits going down at all or going up by more than the 2.5% a year. Basically, nothing will change.
     
  19. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,265

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Then why you worried about it enough just 24 hours earlier to consider changing your vote from the Brexit Party to Lib Dev?!
     
  20. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,448

    They've been going down for the last 5 years or so because of the freeze to benefits that was only meant to last for 2 years, thanks to the fall in the value of sterling and the resultant rise in inflation that arose from the result of the referendum it means people on benefits have seen a fall in real terms, if we leave without a WA I'd expect a much bigger fall than the 10% or so since the referendum that's resulted in disability benefits going down in real-terms by around 2-3% per year.