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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,285

    Location: Cambridge

    It would be wrong to say we hold no sway, but clearly alone we are at a distinct disavanage. It's also hard to underestimate the advantages of being able to sperate trade policy handeled by the EU, and UK forign policy.

    I mean, are China really going to turn down a China/EU trade deal over using Huawei equipment in the UK 5G network?

    I don't think so.

    The current protectionist and oftern outright agressive international trade climate makes the EU indespensable for the UK. There could not be a worse time to go it alone.
     
  2. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,438

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    I was listening to an interview with IDS on LBC this morning and he reckons that Brexit is going to be new renaissance for the UK on the world stage. I just don't know how on earth he thinks this is going to happen.
     
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,714

    For chummy etonites and company, not you.

    As they'll be stripping this country bare to it's last morsel of worth.
     
  4. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,400

    Location: La France

    There used to be a lots of Japanese living in the nicer parts of Ealing who worked at NEC Europe HQ just off Western Avenue by Acton Cemetery, but that office closed years ago and it’s an iGym now, so I’d expected many of them have returned to Japan.
     
  5. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,149

    I think a second referendum is off the table now. The defeat of the vote yesterday afternoon to attempt to bind the next prime minister in to remove no deal off the table also got defeated.

    So unless the next PM delays Brexit instead of going ahead with it, then the last hope would be to try and force a GE.
     
  6. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,626

    Location: London

    Haha so true, great for SE Asian food stores as well :D

    And then all the South Africans are in Wimbledon so ample billtong!
     
  7. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,438

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    A discussion I had at work this morning which bizarrely was echoed almost word for word on JOB's show not 20 minutes later:

    Without quoting it word for word, the upshot was that the deal that was signed with South Korea recently proves that we can get excellent trade deals on the world stage. I pointed out that the deal was a copy/paste of the deal we already had via the EU. Her response to this was so stupid that I was completely lost for words: "Yes, but that was with the EU. This is directly with the UK and so is better".
    I eventually remembered that I was having a conversation and wasn't inside some weird episode of Spitting Image and challenged her to define how it was "better". Apparently it's better because the EU is some separate entity that we have to go to to be allowed to trade with South Korea (I'm guessing sort of like asking your school teacher if you can use the toilet) and by having the deal directly we can cut all the red tape.

    Seriously. This is quality of understanding that we are contending with.
     
  8. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,714

    A GE is coming almost certainly by the end of the year, that is of course if the Tory moderates continue to at least attempt to be good Ministers of Parliament, sovereign and knowing the cost a no deal would inflict on their seat after a few years of massive job losses.

    Along with a Recession likely next year globally, they're going to lose immensely regardless of what happens, might as well do it with dignity.
     
  9. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,695

    The challenge with brexit is most people don’t understand the practical realities and too many deny the real life problems it creates. The UK does not have anything close to the number of experienced trade negotiators it needs to simultaneously negotiate numerous trade deals at the same time or to run the ports and other entry points to the UK if we leave the single market.
     
  10. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,511

    Location: Midlands

    You just want to smash heads together sometimes with the inane drivel that some people use to justify a failed bastion-position.

    People at the base are happy to suffer redundancies/job losses, allegedly pay more for everything, eat poorer quality foods, potentially have to pay for healthcare all in the name of 'well Leave won, so that's the price we pay for victory!!'. Stubborness doesn't come into it.
    The fact that Leave won by lying to everyone, of which many don't want to leave now, is seemingly superfluous. Some ardent remainers at the base are so disenfranchised by the entire situation that it depresses them to the point where they didn't vote for the local or European elections as they 'are past caring'. Apathy never leads to anything good.

    That 3 year Referendum result must have a ticking timer on it's validity now.
     
  11. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,510

    Sorry but i didn't hear to much of that, i think that might be in your head. I and most others squarely put the blame of Brexit Shambles on May. I'm glad that Labour are an ineffective opposition, i think the tories are overstating the Labour threat for the leadership race.
     
  12. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,510

    Not going to happen, it'll require Tory MP to vote for it and that'll be career suicide. And the remainer ones are scared NO!less of their own electorate now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
  13. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,040

    Except they aren’t, are they?

    As shown by one of our resident Brexiteers, the minute it actually starts to impact them directly and personally, they change their tune and decide to vote for a Remain party (after the damage has been done of course). :rolleyes:

    I wonder how many people in Swindon, Sunderland, Scunthorpe or South Wales will admit to having voted to Leave? Or if they do, not try and blame their fate on ‘Remainers ruining Brexit’ and actually own their decision…
     
  14. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,459

    We'll have a better indication of how likely Conservative MPs think a GE is when the votes come in, the main reason to vote for Boris is because he's seen as the best person to beat Farage and Corbyn in a GE.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,853

    Yep, they are scrambling around to save the Tory party now, most don't care about the country.
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,714

    No they aren't, if they were scared a bundle of them wouldn't have left the party. a good chunk of the moderates are currently being thrown out of their respective local parties which means they wont be on the ballot anyway.

    The Brexiteers have made MP's who have no home and therefore have no choice but to vote against the party in derision or wait it out hoping naively for some surprise, you really understanding the numbers in parliament after the last 3 years... really?

    It literally only requires ONE MP for the Tories to lose majority and several have said they would vote against them if Boris was leader.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
  17. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,016

    Just to be clear, you're claiming not have heard any part of the blame for the Brexit shambles being attributed to Corbyn?

    @Dolph, I appreciate that you voted Remain, but do you have a view on this?
     
  18. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,128

    Accelerationism is not a sane or sensible way to deal with fascists. Once they're in power, they set things up so it's impossible to root them out again. You refer to Germany in the 1940s; well, Farage's "special kind of politics" didn't lose its influence there when people experienced the effects of the Nazi ideology, did it? By the time the effects were experienced, everyone was too damn scared to act in case they got to "experience" them next. The denazification of Germany took a major war to rip them out stem and root, followed by executing the leaders and imposing an absolute proscription of the party. All things considered, I think this time it would be a good idea to skip the whole "let the fascists into power" bit.
     
  19. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,438

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    But only if it happens to other people mind.
     
  20. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,128

    Simply put: they didn't know. The UK government - both Tory and Labour - has taken the credit for the EU funding, while blaming their own failures on the EU.