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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,698

    What about the other half of the party then who rather don't want him and a chunk is prepared to vote against him? It's not as 'Wrong as it gets'...

    Literally 10 already have voted against them, 4 have crossed the floor as it is and every further MP counts more as the majority thin's to zero with the DUP.

    Parliament will not allow it to come to pass as has been abundantly proven time and again these past few months.
     
  2. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,123

    It's wrong insofar as it describes Boris's ambitions and intentions. I agree that he will be regarded as an even worse PM than Cameron and May, and that he will probably have to call a General Election in the near future which he will lose. I'm not sure he even cares, though; he just wants to live in Number 10.
     
  3. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Yes. I'm saying exactly that and it's financially incoherent to suggest anything else.

    The alternative is wealth is forever more and more concentrated in the hands of certain families and individuals, it's regressive and acts as a drag on society. The only way out of it is for perpetual uncontrolled asset price inflation to ensure that normal people can continue to support the pyramid by entering things like home ownership at the bottom.

    The real end point is a revolution, it's just not sustainable to keep driving the gap between rich and poor like this.

    The debate is often about fairness, what's so fair about someone being rich through accident of birth when people providing the necessary services for a functioning society have to use food banks?

    I see your blinkers... yes our government who were nominally left did but the real perpetrators were you, I and everyone else who thought 100% self cert mortgages, runaway house price inflation and 0% credit cards were a smart move.

    I mean a generic you, I suspect you'll say it was nothing to do with you and you never borrowed too much, collectively as a society we went on a consumerist binge and when the banks needed bailing out the tories cynically used that to drive a cut agenda.

    Oh please... the man who goes on and on about free speech, uses irrelevant racist posters to stoke fear and anger and then says if he doesn't get what he wants he'll pick up a rifle is offended by Jo Brand making a joke?

    Bull****. it's just more dog whistle nonsense and you're falling for it.
     
  4. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 14,681

    Location: Lincs

    I'm not so sure about Boris' "No Deal" credentials tbh, remember he wrote the two articles about Brexit, one Pro one Anti and only chose which to publish at the last moment. Brexit is just a current vehicle for his own personal political ambitions and I don't think he would want to scupper those with the disaster a No Deal walk away will be.
     
  5. evilmatt

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 3, 2003

    Posts: 286

    The scary thing is I'm not even sure that he would lose, such is the number of absolute nutjobs desperate for self-inflicted economic armageddon in this country and with the remain vote being split :(
     
  6. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Who told you this story. That's right, Boris Johnson. And when did this mysterious second article emerge? 8 months later.

    8 months.

    It seems duplicitous to me. The illusion of thoughtfully agonising over which decision to make, lending huge support for his eventual chosen path. Then the releasing of the supposed alternative text backing Remain, coming just a few days after Theresa May announced that she would trigger Article 50 early in 2017.

    This has all been about Boris playing his audience for fools and casually manipulating them.

    Do people seriously believe, with all the information that we have now to hand on how Johnson has behaved since, that he sat down and agonised long into the night about whether to back Remain or Leave? Seriously? Since making his 'agonising' decision it hasn't really been a close run thing at all - he instantly and magically transformed into full retard leave. And Johnson always goes full retard - that's why he's been kept away from the media as much as possible during this leadership contest.
     
  7. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 14,681

    Location: Lincs

    That's fair enough, I didn't realise the story came from him.

    Actually yes, I can still see that, but not for reasons regarding Brexit but which side of the fence he should pin his flag to which would give his political ambitions the better chance. Don't forget, Leave wasn't "supposed" to win, so his choice was made on being the popular underdog who fought the good fight but ultimately lost.

    Hence why when Leave did win, he was looking as sick as a parrot and ran for the hills, bearing no responsibility for the mess he helped create.
     
  8. bayo000

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 28, 2008

    Posts: 3,841

    Location: Manchester

    Bet you didn't worry about your benefits back then though ;)
     
  9. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 29,003

    Location: Welling, London

    I didn't actually. Probably because I wasn't on them. I was working in the civil service.
     
  10. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 11,239

    Location: Gloucestershire

  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,698

    And look at the US the most right wing government ever and it's currently massively adding to the deficit, so much for that lie.
     
  12. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 29,003

    Location: Welling, London

  13. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Let's not forget the global recession. That may be a larger contributory factor than a relatively minor policy shift...
     
  14. tamzzy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 26, 2012

    Posts: 9,266

    don't let facts get in the way of a far right rant...
    at least he was enjoying his benefits whilst the "left" propped up the economy.
     
  15. Irish_Tom

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,040

    You are completely ignores the huge sums required to bail out the banks due to the global crash. To try and blame Brown’s spending on left-wing ideology is rather disingenuous.
     
  16. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,427

    Location: Back in East London

    Literally a turkey voting for christmas, then.
     
  17. matt100

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 31, 2004

    Posts: 11,148

    Location: Salisbury

    Strikes me you might be old enough to remember the 90s where after over a decade of tory rule literally all we had on the news was sleaze, corruption, hospital waiting lists, rising crime, civil unrest, unpopular taxation, crumbling schools, privatisation and the loadsamoney "me me me" economy.

    Then yes, there was more spending by Blair after their landslide victory using the angle of "things can only get better".

    It's a bit glib, but aren't we in roughly the same place now? The only reason the tories aren't facing a total wipeout to a labour government now is that we don't have a credible opposition.

    A labour party lead by a moderate would absolutely annihilate them, they fact they could STILL lose against Corbyn tells you everything.

    To some extent it's the normal tick tock.. the tories come in and tear everything apart, labour come back in and put money back into services.. that gets out of hand and wasteful and round and round we go.

    Literally the only thing mucking this up is Corbyn, Farage and Brexit right now otherwise it would be the natural time for the tories to bugger off and the state to become a tad more compassionate again for a while.. a bit of boom before the next bust.
     
  18. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    Erm, yes you can..

    [​IMG]
    (Source)

    As you can see there was not a huge increase, in fact it was not much higher than it was for the majority of the Major government and it was much lower than during the majority of the Thatcher era.
     
  19. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,698

    Brexit, Corbyn and Farage are a result of that pendulum becoming distasteful to people, so frankly i find the current situation very natural and deserved.

    Decades of increasingly belligerent leaders and parties have only ever one effect, a slow realisation that maybe some change is necessary, unfortunately as ever it's just a wedge for populists to ride in with their violent rhetoric.
     
  20. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,188

    In fairness to Brown; what choice did he have?
    Let RBS, HBOS and Barclay go bust? Can you
    Imagine the chaos? Would have made Brexit look like a picnic.