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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 15,941

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Except that's not going to happen, despite EU immigration being down we got lots more other immigration. You swapped white Europeans for brown and yellow non Europeans.
     
  2. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358

    A senior executive of the ECB thinks its a little more than a loose 'principle'

    As for how it will be implemented in these states I suspect by the usual routes of the respective national parliaments making such a large decision without bothering to consult the electorate at all (like the UK with the Masstrict treaty).

    Or by having the electorate repeatedly vote till they come back with the 'correct' decision.
     
  3. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,171

    The housing problem in this country has been down to UK Govt policies over the years. Removing social housing, allowing social housing trusts to engage in building upmarket houses while destroying needed social housing, all the latest Govt gimmicks that have just added froth to the housing bubble. There have always been housing shortages in some parts of the country.
     
  4. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,188

    This is a common misconception, the UK taxation received from EU citizens once welfare payments they receive are deducted is £13,500,000,000. With the jobs market and immigration the UK government could more than halve immigration over night if it chose to, this again is not down to the EU which mainly provides workers to take the jobs UK worker cannot or will not, granted this is not true in all cases. The majority of EU migrants come to the UK and contribute a great deal to the country not just in financial ways, these are exactly the people we need like the Irish etc. in the past.
     
  5. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358

    I doesn't matter who owns housing there just isn't enough of it in private or public hands to go around.

    Knocking down existing stock to build up is prohibitively expensive in a lot of cases and this country has a poor history with regards to high rise 'social' accommodation.

    Brown sites are also expensive to redevelop and not really that plentiful where there is demand and there's justifiable opposition to destroying ever more farm land and the countryside to sait housing demand where immigration has been one of the primary drivers over the past twenty years.

    And foreigners and or the 'rich' buying properties to leave the empty is a small problem in the housing shortage limited mostly to a few areas on london and freeing up such addresses would ultimately fo little to alleviate the wider issues.
     
  6. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,188

    The UK is not in the Euro zone and has an opt out. In terms of brexit for the UK it is irrelevant. Not having something you don’t have is not a benefit of brexit.
     
  7. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,171

    There is no mechanism to force them as it stated therefore they can continue ad infinitum. They have to meet criteria which can be manipulated. This is after all how Greece managed to join the Euro although they did not meet the criteria. You seem to have difficulty understanding UK Parliamentary democracy. We elect MPs to make decisions for us, we do not have referenda like the Swiss.
    The usual BS about the electorate being forced to vote until they come to the 'correct decision. Farage tried saying that in Eire and got told he was lying. Unfortunately reporters/presenters allow these lies to be regularly repeated in this country and see what a mess it has caused.
     
  8. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,188

    Farage on RTÉ in Ireland explaining your exact point. Out of respect for the Irish I will not include his interview where he tried to compare the EU to the British colonial exploitation of Ireland, they were very angry as you can imagine.

     
  9. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,171

    There are more than enough luxury buildings but not enough social housing and that is due to the actions of the UK Govts past and present. However much you want to blame it on the EU it is our problem of our making. in Scotland they have got rid of Thatcher's policy years ago and are building social housing again. In England they are pretending that building high cost homes will solve the problem whilst the reality is a return to Rachman type landlords and conditions.
     
  10. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358


    Perhaps you need a reminder as to why the euronwas raised?

    I was asked

    I provided a reply citing the euro and a piece of work suggesting adoption of the Euro had negative consequencs for certain EU states and specifically anticipated the reply about the UK not being in the Euro and having one of the few exceptions from it.
     
  11. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,171

    No you did not. I asked that question and you put in a study that even they admitted had a lack of data and did not include political and social issues. This is the third time I have rebutted your assertion but you just continue to regurgitate the same old nonsense. You obviously did not read your own study you posted but saw the graph and posted.
     
  12. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,188

    What I need is a detailed real world Brexit plan which explains the benefits and how to mitigate the costs for a clearly defined version of brexit. After three years we still only have the choice of Mays plan or keeping the current EU deal. Continually criticising the EU is pointless.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,851

    Sadly there could be enough to go around. What there isnt enough for is people with 2nd, 3rd and 4th homes and those that just need one home.

    That isnt the fault of the EU it is the fault of bad governance which sadly will get worse after brexit as we will likely be ruled by the very same people that most brexiters claim to hate.
     
  14. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 10,171

    This is what should have been happening in the UK every time Farage, JRM etc spouted their rubbish but unfortunately they did not and look at the mess we are in.
     
  15. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358

    Thanks for pointing out that outside of the EU that we can likely arrange trade agreements far more efficiently! (free from having to negotiate with multiple nations)

    The Israelis managed in around 1\10 of the time it took the EU!



    Somehow I don't quite think it was your intention to show how independent nations can get things done more quickly?
     
  16. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 4,410

    I'm still trying to workout why you think the consequences of implementing the single currency is in any means considered a lever of power the EU has to direct the economies of members nations, do you not know that correlation does not imply causation?
    I can perform brain surgery really quickly although I'm not sure you'd like my methods, that's why details are important because without details we can't asses how good or bad something is, such as the details I've asked you for on three separate occasions now...
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  17. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,851

    I take it you didnt get down to the end.
    Good luck with a no deal brexit.
     
  18. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358

    I'm confused as to why you think using a common currency, with a common central bank would not be a way the EU can exert control of the economies of its member states.

    The bank of England certainly uses its control over sterling to seek to affect the UK economy
     
  19. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 5,358

    I'm not sure how comparing how long it tool China to enter the WTO (given the obvious issues with China complying with international agreements) is relevant to the UK seeking it own trade deals?


    This article is citing the China /WTO agreement as a comparison to other trade negotiations that have dragged on a long while but not quite as long as the EU/ Mercosur deal!

    Chinas delay entering the WTO were down to issues specific to China like their flagrant disregard for intellectual property

    This is therefore not relevant to the UK as we have strong protections for intellectual property.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  20. terley

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 3, 2010

    Posts: 2,869

    Not hyperbole? Are you telling me that i can't decide what my own statements are? Im not talking about actual news headlines dude, im talking about my own made up ones in hyperbole to poke fun at the probable headlines of him in a desperate attempt to de-legitimise him... I'm not even talking about the recent statements which have been absolutely ludicrous.. an argument with his wife? please... rediculous.

    Bojo didnt cost Nazanin Zaghari is captive in pretty much an enemy state... It is not boris' fault she has been arrested and jailed, she is lucky she hasn't been executed.. The foreign office have tried adnauseam to get her free.


    How would i know? I voted remain... But everyone i know who didn't fully accepted that it was to leave with no deal and now see it as the preferred option.


    I agree, they don't. Although i don't believe anyone can really say that a no-deal brexit is 100% going to cause a lot of damage, it is a risk certianly.. however the debate is still open.

    I would also say that from a purely middle ground perspective, the left has caused more damage to society in the past 5 years than the right has in the past 50.
     
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