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Brexit Discussion

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by FrenchTart, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,279

    Not to mention there hasn’t been a case like it since or before. It really is an outlier in terms of an example.
     
  2. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 13,674

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    It's not only an outlier, it's utterly irrelevant. If the Leavers genuinely do get their **** together and we leave on October 31st (or we do crash out, but I prefer not to consider that particular turd sandwich) then we'll be pulling out of the European Union. Leaving the EU means sweet **** all for our relationship with the European Court of Human Rights, which is tied up with the Council Of Europe. We will still be a member of the Council Of Europe if/when we leave the EU (indeed, there are 19 non-EU states that are members of the Council).

    Quite why any Leaver would think that Brexit means no longer having to abide by the European Convention on Human Rights, enforced by the European Court of Human Rights, is beyond me. Perhaps they should have worked into the referendum something about leaving the Council Of Europe. Ah well. Hindsight, eh?
     
  3. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,981



    There is no such thing as the "EU human rights courts". You are probably thinking of the European Court of Human Rights, which has absolutely nothing to do with the EU, and of which Britain will be a member whatever the status is within the EU.


    This is just more completely moronic leaver nonsense.
     
  4. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,143

    The sort of thinking that formed the basis for support of the vote to leave.

    How as a nation does the UK ensure its prosperity and avoid calamity by protecting itself from damaging lack of critical thinking like this?

    For me, this is the big question to come out of the post-truth Brexit shambles.
     
  5. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,602

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Pffft we should be leaving anything with Europe in the title.
     
  6. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,251

    Agreed. It's not as though they haven't been told the truth either, they literally choose not to believe verifiable facts in favour of anti EU propaganda and outright lies. There are plenty of examples in this thread of pro Brexit posters repeating the same old nonsense long after it has been comprehensively debunked.
     
  7. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,279

    GATT Article 24 being a key example
     
  8. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,251

    It is Schrödinger's will of the people. Unchangeable, unquestionable and forever set in stone back in 2016, but also able to change to mean whatever the Brexit frothers say it means this week.
     
  9. Daftbrown

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 23, 2013

    Posts: 1,162

    Location: Surrey

    It doesn't have to be this way. Those for Brexit just need to make counter arguments that stand up to scrutiny. As I keep saying, I would welcome more pro-Brexit views, provided they have a solid foundation in fact and are not faith based or thinly veiled xenophobic/ islamophobic statements and/or little Englander delusions. Something that sounds like it's not fiction pulled from the pages of the Mail or Express for example.

    If Brexit is to happen I would like to see that there are at least some tangible benefits. Please, show me the light at the end of this miserable tunnel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2019
  10. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 8,602

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Was listening to LBC.

    Boris to be interviewed so taking callers questions.

    Some woman rung up and wanted to ask Boris what he was going to do about the dementia crisis, she said its as bad as the climate one. He mother was 69 and father 79, so you can probably guess approx her age, these people wont be about long enough to see the worst of climate change and seem to be all about now. She mentioned Mays "Dementia tax" and I get to the crux of her point, Boris committing the £350M a week from the bus!
    The presenter said but thats widely been debunked, and she said "yes its going to be MORE! than that!"
     
  11. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,222

    The delay in the trial you discussed was unacceptable. Reasons were slightly more complicated than you suggested (naughty naughty).

    One issue was with bias in the media and public making the chance of a fair trial impossible.
     
  12. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 30,851

    I’m sure it’s been posted already but, for ***** sake, the European Convention on Human Rights is not the EU!

    Edit: yes it had.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,589

    You have to wonder what else is being discussed as fact in the brexit echo chamber.

    Well I say wonder but it is posted here repeatedly only to be rebuked without those that posted it willing to respond to the rebuking and then reposted sometime later when they think rational people have forgotten it.
     
  14. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,294

    I was listening to the latest Boris interview on LBC and the question was put to him about how will he get the EU to change its position. He bluffed his way through the question. But it got me thinking.

    Considering there was no negotiation, that the EU just accepted what May had proposed, why do people think the EU won't move?

    I can understand the EU trying to hang on to the deal as its good for them, May give them the final decision, which is why the hardline Brexiteers don't like it.

    The EU itself offered us a free trade deal and as said that in the event of a no deal there are other solutions to the Irish border. Their deal offered seems better than the May deal on the table.

    Also it shows the low level of news media today that they are focusing on Boris, when Hunt as taken a much stronger line on walking away from the table by October 31st. Why isn't he getting even half the pressure about his position? He's flying under the radar.
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 18,254

    What are you talking about? that deal was after 2 ½ years of negotiations.
     
  16. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,294

    It was May's deal she offered to the EU. Nobody had any input, even her own cabinet. The EU had already offered a free trade deal yet May rejected it and put forward her deal, which was more favourable to the EU than their own deal was.
     
  17. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,648

    Indeed, what i don't get is that people aren't seeing that the EU saying "It won't move" is part of the negotiation. As soon as Boris says, fine, seeya on the 31st Oct without your £39billion, you'll soon here a "Wait, wait, wait, come back don't be so rash" from the EU

    They are desperate for the money.
     
  18. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,294

    I agree. The media cause a lot of these problems by setting up questions that would reveal our hand, so when the person interviewed declines to comment the media say "S/he has got no answers". It's school yard level journalism, and sadly some people believe it.
     
  19. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 12,108

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Is the "they need us more than we need them" narrative still kicking around? Really?

    We have had 2 years of negotiations. We dont have a "hand" to reveal, everyone on both sides are fully aware of what the other "has", its not poker.
     
  20. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,143

    It looks like the Govt hosts the text of the closing remarks of the Brexit Secretary made after each round of negotiations...

    Here's one from David Davis for example...

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...rth-round-of-eu-exit-negotiations-in-brussels

    Sample extract:

    It's just not the case - however hard the pro-Brexit press pushes the lie - that this deal was exclusively May's.