Poll: British Grand Prix 2022, Silverstone - Race 10

Rate the 2022 British Grand Prix out of ten


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Associate
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Faster by a chunk? Nah, Lewis was on pace with both Ferrari and Red Bull today.

Lewis was slow off the restart - possibly the car - but what put him behind Pérez in the end was failing to position himself correctly after passing both Checo and Leclerc.

Lewis was on course for P2 or even the win behind the safety car start a brilliant drive but he made mistakes on and after the restart that cost him the place today.

Checo made the most of it, jumping both Leclerc in full Ferrari corn make up and Lewis. Great driving.
Great driving from Checo. The RB is likely faster overall but that overtake on Hamilton showed great car placement. Love seeing these guys battle for position and not just defending for a teammate.
 
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Not how I viewed it. He went off the track and overtook LeClerc with his momentum when he returned.

I’m still shocked that wasn’t a penalty to be honest. No different than Max on Kimi at COTA.
He didn’t really overtake with momentum, but more that Charles got pushed wide (not on purpose) and had poor traction coming back.

Not saying it doesn’t deserve looking into but I don’t think it was intended.
 
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He didn’t really overtake with momentum, but more that Charles got pushed wide (not on purpose) and had poor traction coming back.

Not saying it doesn’t deserve looking into but I don’t think it was intended.
I don’t think I can accept someone being off track and then a second later overtaking the car they was battling.
 
Soldato
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What's it going to take to slap max into place? All last year he did this pushing off track and line driving and was never called out on it. Perhaps a nice big crash etc?
Well that was Silverstone last year wasn’t it? Obviously he learnt nothing. Problem is if he is in the inside (as he so often is), any contact means due to momentum the person on the outside is way more likely to lose out. You have to yield or you’re having a major crash. That’s why what he does is so disgusting.
For me, what puts Verstappen over the line is that his defending relies on the other person going off the track to avoid contact.
Exactly.
 
Caporegime
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Surprised nothing came of his pit entry with his damaged car/slow puncture. He seemed to need to lock up and slid beyond the line. Highly doubt he was at or below the speed at the line
 
Soldato
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Max is on the racing line and stays on the racing line. He is also ahead throughout, what exactly are you expecting a penalty for? Or is it just because it's Max? If you are penalising Max for that then there'd be a lot of other drivers getting penalties today because this happened a lot at that corner. It always does.

You don't have to just yield the racing line if you are ahead although if the other driver is really trying to go for it then you of course increase the chances of a crash.
The racing line means nothing. If another car is alongside you at corner entry then it has to be allowed racing room, in this case a car's width on the outside. That's it's an S-bend is irrelevant. It isn't Deathrace 2000, you can't just run other cars off the track to stop them overtaking you. Well unless you're Max.

George Russell did similar last year in the Sprint race and got clobbered for it with a penalty.
 
Soldato
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What are you saying - off the start all drivers should stay in a straight line until the first corner ?! :cry:
That's the car behind's fault, driving into a narrowing gap. Would be the same insurance call if that happened on the road too.

You actually see Gasly back out, just before the contact but it's too late
Obviously not saying that, but if George is going to close the door like that, then he should maybe be aware of what's around him.
Of course Gasly would be backing out, he could see the car about to hit him. If Verstappen pulled that, people here would be foaming at the mouth.
 
Soldato
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Gasly was a numpty by trying to go through the middle and making it three wide.

Russell isn't blameless, but in the middle of a pack of 20 cars you can't have eyes on all of them at all times. It's impossible.
 
Soldato
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Gasly should have been a bit smarter, but once he was there he can't go anywhere else. I did initially think it was Tsunoda given the shoddiness of the move. :D
On Tsunoda, does he have a contract for next year with AT? This weekend wont have done him any favours.
 
Soldato
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Reading this https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/ and looking at the Max / MSc incident I agree with @Stumble Bum and cant see Max did anything wrong. I've wondered for a while what the balance was between having to leave a car's width into a corner and being allowed to take the racing line coming out of the corner. It depends on a lot and is open to a lot of interpretation of each event, but with the coming out of the corner bit

7. Going around the outside​

A defender who is overtaken on the inside will sometimes try to hold their position using the outside line. Alternatively, an attacker may try to overtake around the outside against a defender who covers the inside line. Some of the greatest overtaking maneuvers in the sport’s history have been achieved using this method.

If the driver going around the outside is already more than half a car length ahead by the apex, they are entitled to cut in to the inside along the racing line, as per case 5 above. An example is Nelson Piquet’s incredible four-wheel drift around the outside of Ayrton Senna in the 1986 Hungarian Grand Prix.

If the driver going around the outside is not sufficiently far ahead to take the racing line on apex, they can continue on an outside line. In this case, a potential dispute arises at corner exit. The driver on the outside naturally wants to continue their trajectory along the outside, while the driver on the inside wants to take a quicker straighter line by running out to the edge of the track. Who owns that piece of track on corner exit? Who is to blame in the event of a collision there?
The last paragraph above is the crux point

The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit. Depending on the type of corner and the cars involved, either the outside or inside line may be quicker through the corner, meaning the driver on the outside may gain or lose ground from corner entry to corner exit. It is relative positions of the cars at exit — not at entry or apex — that is therefore crucial in judging these cases.
That to me says the racing line is the persons who is ahead at corner exit, which in this case was Max's, so he had every right to drift out to the outside edge of the track and its MSc's obligation to yield or be at fault for the collision.

As confirmed by the next paragraph

If the driver on the inside is behind at corner exit, they must leave space for the driver on the outside.

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
Though how much and how aggressively they close out the attacker is open to some interpretation

In this case, the driver on the inside is free to drift out towards the outside on exit. While they are expected to approximately follow the racing line — but not exactly, since they enter the corner on a tighter trajectory to a normal racing line — they have some freedom in selecting how aggressively they close out the other driver. Just how aggressive they can be falls into perhaps the most controversial gray area in modern racing.
So yea, imo Max did nothing wrong in drifting to the outside on that corner exit as MSc wasnt front axle to front axle on corner exit and it was down to MSc to either yield, go off track or cause a collision.
 
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Reading this https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/amp/ and looking at the Max / MSc incident I agree with @Stumble Bum and cant see Max did anything wrong. I've wondered for a while what the balance was between having to leave a car's width into a corner and being allowed to take the racing line coming out of the corner. It depends on a lot and is open to a lot of interpretation of each event, but with the coming out of the corner bit


The last paragraph above is the crux point


That to me says the racing line is the persons who is ahead at corner exit, which in this case was Max's, so he had every right to drift out to the outside edge of the track and its MSc's obligation to yield or be at fault for the collision.

As confirmed by the next paragraph


Though how much and how aggressively they close out the attacker is open to some interpretation


So yea, imo Max did nothing wrong in drifting to the outside on that corner exit as MSc wasnt front axle to front axle on corner exit and it was down to MSc to either yield, go off track or cause a collision.

Perfectly summed up. Thank you.
 
Associate
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That WordPress article is 8 years old.

It contains different wording, in particular the parts you've (selectively) highlighted, to the F1 Drivers Standards Guidelines, published in April of this year by the FIA.

The term confirmation bias feels appropriate here with what you've posted.
 
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Caporegime
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Faster by a chunk? Nah, Lewis was on pace with both Ferrari and Red Bull today.

Lewis was slow off the restart - possibly the car - but what put him behind Pérez in the end was failing to position himself correctly after passing both Checo and Leclerc.

Lewis was on course for P2 or even the win behind the safety car start a brilliant drive but he made mistakes on and after the restart that cost him the place today.

Checo made the most of it, jumping both Leclerc in full Ferrari clown make up and Lewis. Great driving.

Poor take. The car is obviously rubbish on cold tyres. It's always dog slow in the first few laps of a race/a restart.

Just look at him vs Norris for the first few laps. Then once the tyres get into the optimum window, he leaves him for dust.
 
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