Poll: British Grand Prix 2022, Silverstone - Race 10

[Mesai]

Do you think maybe because they arent used to being up at the front any more? Genuine question.

Possibly too nervy to make any bolder decisions due to pressure....I dont know just chucking it out there, they do seem pretty inept with strategy.

That’s probably part of it but I feel like we had the exact same situation with Vettel. These aren’t junior engineers either, these guys should be top notch. Maybe they just don’t have the same level of analytics and decision making that other teams do.

It’s worth remembering that Schumi brought some of his senior team over to Ferrari. I don’t think he would’ve been as successful otherwise.

 

[englishpremier]

That’s probably part of it but I feel like we had the exact same situation with Vettel. These aren’t junior engineers either, these guys should be top notch. Maybe they just don’t have the same level of analytics and decision making that other teams do.

It’s worth remembering that Schumi brought some of his senior team over to Ferrari. I don’t think he would’ve been as successful otherwise.

Nah it's always been the same with Ferrari since Brawn Todt et al. left. Probably one of the things that drove Alonso crazy.

Ferrari are better when not managed by Italians. Make of that what you will.

Where Ferrari just dither and shake their magic 8 ball, and call and alphabet of strategies, Mercedes are just so conservative. I'd say Merc are more afraid of making a mistake than Ferrari though.

 

[Scam]

They should have pitted leclerc. He had 10 laps to get back past Sainz and Lewis even if they stayed on hards.

But they only had 6secs to decide this and all ramifications. Hindsight is great.

We had that for a while. It was carp.

Why?

But then you are just moving "the problem", in that people who pitted just before the accident, will luck into being in a better strategic position (fresher tyres/more grip) when the safety car comes in and the race restarts.

I think people would accept that a bit more easily than the current system whereas basically if you're in the lead and there's a safety car in the last 15 laps, you've lost the race. Like the above, it's ridiculous that the team and driver can do everything right and it be thrown away by some back marker binning it. It's the equivalent of a football game being 6-0 to one team and then coming up with some nonsense whereas the ref has to give 7 penalties all in one go.. or something.

 

[MissChief]

Ferrari can be so slow to react at times. As soon as the safety car was called their head of strategy should have called box box and even if they waited two or three seconds for tyres Charles would. have been better off than he was. Hindsight again though.

 

[englishpremier]

I'm not one for saying if it's always been done that way then leave it, but nothing else that has been tried has worked as well a pure safety car. It's been part of the sport since I've been watching and if anything there are less crashes these days. I don't see it as an issue. It only seems to come up when someones' favourite driver loses out.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Where Ferrari just dither and shake their magic 8 ball, and call and alphabet of strategies, Mercedes are just so conservative. I'd say Merc are more afraid of making a mistake than Ferrari though.

Think its fairly obvious Mercedes use data to drive almost every decision and play the percentages which will play out over the long run. Downside of this is sometimes they don't value driver input as much as they should, like yesterday when Lewis said are you about the softs suspecting they wouldn't work on his car.

Ferrari and Redbull take chances and sometimes these payoff sometimes they don't. When they don't they pay off they use the we had nothing to lose or we had to take a chance line.

But they only had 6secs to decide this and all ramifications. Hindsight is great.

Pretty sure Sky said they had 13 seconds or maybe 12 seconds.

 

[DeliciousStorage]

Max breaking the rules and getting away with it, I'm getting a sense of deja vu. Perez was a slam dunk penalty too. Great race but the stewards had an absolute shocker.

 

[Scam]

soon as the safety car was called their head of strategy should have called box box

You sure? They would need time to check what tyres/age the others were on. Yes I’m sure they’d knew but the guy making the call (physically) might need to check. If someone behind was on 2 lap old softs then it wouldn’t be the right choice.

tty sure Sky said they had 13 seconds or maybe 12 seconds.

Yes to be fair if they saw the incident and guessed it would be a safety car, I think that’s where the extra time came from.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Yes to be fair if they saw the incident and guessed it would be a safety car, I think that’s where the extra time came from.

That's right, now you have said it, I remember them saying once they saw the car parked where it was, it was obvious it was a safety car.

 

[Mr Jack]

You sure? They would need time to check what tyres/age the others were on. Yes I’m sure they’d knew but the guy making the call (physically) might need to check. If someone behind was on 2 lap old softs then it wouldn’t be the right choice.

They should have this information to hand at all times, and they should be planning ahead with a strategy call ready to go if there's an SC at any time. Hell, even just from having live timing up on my laptop I could see within seconds that there was a big enough gap to Norris to pit and it was surely obvious that fresh softs would have enough pace differential to get past older hards with a dozen laps left of the race.

 

[Stumble Bum]

Max breaking the rules and getting away with it, I'm getting a sense of deja vu. Perez was a slam dunk penalty too. Great race but the stewards had an absolute shocker.

What rule did Max break? This has been discussed in detail and there was nothing wrong. Please enlighten us.

 

[Slackworth]

I'm not one for saying if it's always been done that way then leave it, but nothing else that has been tried has worked as well a pure safety car. It's been part of the sport since I've been watching and if anything there are less crashes these days. I don't see it as an issue. It only seems to come up when someones' favourite driver loses out.

Of course it's going to always cause that problem with the favourite driver but is there anything different outside of F1 and it's support races that works from one of the US series as an example? Although I agree lots has been tried unsuccessfully and finding the answer will be almost impossible, you've hit the nail on the head in the way - a driver shouldn't lose out as @Scam suggested or you may as well just stop the race and have a 5, 10, 15 (or whatever) lap sprint race especially if the SC comes out late as it did yesterday or in AD last year.

 

[englishpremier]

There have been races where they just restarted the race and aggregate times were used. So for example Max could be 15 seconds ahead of Sainz. Race is stopped, they start again from the grid or SC start in the order the race is stopped. Sainz then overtakes Max, and pulls out a 10 second lead, but Max is still effectively P1 with a 5 second lead.

I remember the one with Hill and Schumacher at the Japanese GP, Was fun, but probably not a good way for the fans to work out whose won.

 

[Jono8]

I'm not one for saying if it's always been done that way then leave it, but nothing else that has been tried has worked as well a pure safety car. It's been part of the sport since I've been watching and if anything there are less crashes these days. I don't see it as an issue. It only seems to come up when someones' favourite driver loses out.

Less crashes, but much more use of the safety car.

The safety car is brought out for almost anything/any crash now.

 

[uscool]

Max breaking the rules and getting away with it, I'm getting a sense of deja vu. Perez was a slam dunk penalty too. Great race but the stewards had an absolute shocker.

Perez learning from Max , pretty sure Perez all 4 wheels went off track and ending up ahead of Charles and also Lewis having to go off track to avoid colliding

Mick did well to yield few times otherwise wouldn't have got any points

 

[CSMonkeh]

There have been races where they just restarted the race and aggregate times were used. So for example Max could be 15 seconds ahead of Sainz. Race is stopped, they start again from the grid or SC start in the order the race is stopped. Sainz then overtakes Max, and pulls out a 10 second lead, but Max is still effectively P1 with a 5 second lead.

I remember the one with Hill and Schumacher at the Japanese GP, Was fun, but probably not a good way for the fans to work out whose won.

OMG aggregate times
IIRC Japan ‘94 was the last time that rule was and was abolished at the end of the season
Can you imagine the mayhem it would produce nowadays??

 

[Freakbro]

It does. The recent rules state that if the overtaking car has it's front wheels overlapping any part of the car defending then it needs to be allowed a car width. Your old Wordpress article states it has to be at least half a car length ahead by the apex otherwise has to concede.

Is that the autosport article linked earlier from April you're referencing? Then that is talking about overtaking on the inside of a corner when the front wheels only need to be alongside.

Its different for overtaking on the outside, where they still mention being ahead?

For overtaking outside of a corner​

In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’, for an overtaking on the outside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car is ahead of the other car from the apex of the corner.

Mick had the required overlap and more, otherwise why would he have to exit the track to avoid Max's over-aggressive bull****.

I'm not even talking specifically about this incident tbf, just the rule in principle, and it still sounds like the document I linked up.

 

[ci_newman]

Less crashes, but much more use of the safety car.

The safety car is brought out for almost anything/any crash now.

The Bianchi incident is the reason for that, nobody wants to see a repeat of that day. VSC for anything that marshalls can clear by hand and a full SC for anything requiring a truck inside the racing barriers.

 

[MassiveJim]

But then you are just moving "the problem", in that people who pitted just before the accident, will luck into being in a better strategic position (fresher tyres/more grip) when the safety car comes in and the race restarts.

To make it fairer for teams (but more boring for fans) they would have to also limit all cars top speed at the same time so as to maintain the race distances prior to the safety car, then when the safety car goes in everyone is exactly where they were before with no advantages given (apart from anyone lucky enough to be in the pit at the time the safety car was out)

 

[touch]

To make it fairer for teams (but more boring for fans) they would have to also limit all cars top speed at the same time so as to maintain the race distances prior to the safety car, then when the safety car goes in everyone is exactly where they were before with no advantages given (apart from anyone lucky enough to be in the pit at the time the safety car was out)

That's exactly what the virtual safety car is? It doesn't suit all situations and sometimes a full safety car is required.