Building my first pc- so i need the wise men and women of this forum to help me :)

[MumboJumbo]

Hello there, this is likely to be a long post so i hope your sitting comfortably! I am dislexic and i appologise for any poor spelling and grammer, i do try my hardest!

I will number parts of this post so that those people who reply can answer on specific areas using the numbers. That will help me to know what your answering


Ok then, i shall give you the general idea of what i want to build first off:

Id like to start off by saying thank you for helping me as i dont think i could do as good a job with out you guys!

Im going to start building in September time and probly finnish around February. This is because i am not going to do it all at once as i do not have the money. The finnished result should look somthing like this:

(First building section in september)
Quad core processor
A case with good air flow
2gb of DDR2 PC2 8500+
Powersupply
A new motherboard caperble of 4gb of ram but not interested in SLI or crossfire.


(Second building section, around november/december)

A mid/high range Dx10 graphics card. (Bought after the G90 to see if i can afford low end G90 or high end G80 due to price drops)
Sound card (pretty confident on which to buy here)



(Third building section, around january/february)

Wide screen monitor
New gaming Keyboard + mouse
Vista (might buy in second building section)
Water cooling (might have to buy in second building section)


Ok then, so thats the general idea. Now for my more detailed story

I want to buy quality parts for this pc and high spec parts. I dont want to have to upgrade but i dont want to spend needless money because i dont have a lot. Therefore that is why i am doing it in stages so that i can spend as much as i can afford in each stage.

I am not going to state any price limits. The reason being is because i want a pc which will forfill what I need. I will pay what it takes to get it and i wont take short cuts due to having maximum prices.

However, i am not going to spend anything more then i have to because i have spent a very long time saving up for this pc. At the moment i have around £1100. This is not going to be enough to buy everything if i was to buy it now. But this is some months away and i am hoping for significant drops in prices.

Idealy i would like to keep it under £1000, but if i have to pay more for the quality and spec which i am after. Then i gues ill have to find more money!

Basicaly, i want to go quad core because i cant afford to upgrade again for a long time. Therefore i want to be ready for when they are more optimized. Im hoping games such as crysis will be able to use them to some degree to give a better performance then duel.

Im hoping there will be a second price cut by september and i will wait if it is suspected there will be by november. Im hopeing therefore i will be able to get a better quad core then the Q6600.

This brings me to my first question (1) im hoping that you guys could give me an estimate of what sort of quad core i could expect by September for a price of around £200-£220. I would hope it would be more then the Q6600.

Now onto my second question about the quad core (2). Will i be able to run the estimated quad core on stock fans in a good case for a while?

You see ideally i want to go into water cooling. Id like to go into water cooling because i dont like the idea of a pc being over 60 degrees. I know its perfectly ok. But i would just like to keep the temperature down and with a powerful GFX card in there and hopefully a powerful quad core. I worry its going to be running to hot on stock fans. I want to save as much money i can in the early stages but not compromise. Only buy what i need at the time but buy the best i can possible afford. If i want to go into water cooling, i dont want to have to buy fans as well. Otherwise im spending double the amount and might as well buy the water cooling at the start or stick on air.


This then brings me straight onto the third question. The case :O, there are so many and i read good and bad things. I have many questions about cases here:

(3) Some cases have doors, does this mean the door has to be open when using the case otherwize it will overheat because the fans cant suck air in? (eg the p182). If this is the case (ooo the pun) then i gues ill stay away from these cases.

(4) What case would be able to handle the cooling of a quad core on stock fans (if any) and have pleanty of room for upgrades on hard drives, fans, graphix card (dont know how big the G90 is) and have space for water cooling if nessary.

The antec 900 is sadly out of the question. It looks nice but the fact that it has no filters makes it a no no because i have an incredibly furry dog as it comes from Siberia lol. It would be a jungle of fur in the pc in no time as the dog sleeps infront of the pc. DOH!

Ive been looking at some PC cases, i really dont want to spend over £75 but deffintly not over £100. I would only go over the £75 marker if it was really worth it and i had to.

A general Spec of what i would like in a case:

-Must not be a hover for dust and dog fur! My dog is incredibly furry!. Therefore filters on the fans would be a life saver!

-Must be very spacious so i can expand and add many fans or water cooling. I cannot afford to buy another case, this must be able to last me many years!

-Must have good air flow, i like to keep my case as cool as possible!

-If it comes with a decent PSU, that could save me a lot. But i understand most wont come with good PSU's!

-Style would be nice, but each to there own and i cant really ask you to chose me a case on style as we may not agree on whats nice!

Here are some of my ideas for cases so far:

NZXT Zero Crafted Series Aluminium Full Tower (If i really had to strech that far but by no means do i want to!)

Antec P182 Super Midi Tower Case - No PSU (Gun Metal Black) (highly intrested in, but has a door and not sure if i need the door open to use the pc due to the fans.)

Thermaltake VD1000BWS Aguila SuperMidi Tower - Black

Thermaltake VA7000BWA Shark Aluminium Full Tower - Black

NZXT Hush Classic Series Silent Computer Chassis (Has a case door though? so if its true the door has to be open to use the pc due to the fans, then i dont want it.)

NZXT Lexa Classic Series Ultra light Aluminum Midtower (intrigued but once again, it has a door so im not sure)

Antec Titan 650 Tower Case - 650w TruePower PSU (I checked the PSU out, while not being the best of the best. I presume its good enough but i doubt the air flow will be good enough?)


Im confident to choose ram but motherboards i am not! I know what it does and i can find one which i can plug everything into. But, i do not know which is better or for what reasons.

I plan to overclock a little once i get the cooling sorted, but ive read its not easy to overclock a quad core. But i am a quick learner and i want to learn and wont give up at it till i do!

(5) So, what motherboard will be best suited to my needs:

-The ability to plug 4gb of ram in if required

- The ability to plug a quad core in + G80 (possibly a G90)

- Good enough to do basic overclocking, perhaps a little more but not over the top!


It doesn't need to be the best and i certainly cant afford to spend any more then i have to.



(6) I know that water cooling will be some time away. But i would like to know peoples views on it.

Is it worth while on a pc such as this which is likely to get very hot?

What sort of price am i looking at to cover my cpu and graphics card? Do i really need it on my hard drives because id imagine a couple of fans could deal with that fine.


(7) Ok then, i dont want this to take over this thread. But i am curious as in to get vista 32 bit or 64 bit. Ive read up on it. I know compatibility issues are a problem. But, rember, i cannot afford to just buy vista again. Considing i wont be buying it till late january/february possibly and many more drivers should be out by then. Is it best to just go 64 bit because i will be able to get more out of my pc in the more high tech games and software?




Well, i think thats enough questions for now. I gues once i get all the hardware sorted. Ill be asking a few questions about installing it all!! haha Thank you so much for reading what i have to say and posting replies. I look forward to being enlightened by the superb and experienced community on here!

Dave

 

[BFG_9000]

What was the 1st question...

 

[Will_3rd]

Probably best to get all the bits at the same time and also keep your posts to a short length otherwise most people will not bother reading them

 

[MumboJumbo]

that was fast.

Thing is. I have a lot of questions. I either spam the forum or keep it in one thread.

I want to wait till november for the graphics card due to the G90 coming out. SO there is no reason to buy it early.

Im going to use the parts from the current pc in the mean time. Hard drive, sound card, graphics card etc. So there is no hurry to buy it all at once.

The processor and ram is the main upgrade i want asap. The rest can wait.

 

[ash_scotland88]

your sort of in the same boat as me, not building till september? is it an other computer for uni thing. AS i was told I could plan all the parts just now but chances are that new stuff will come out that could be cheaper and better.
Let ease this for poeple, your asking them just now on these components to get:
Quad core
Motherboard
Ram
Case

and to bear in mind whole build will be around/under £1100 by the time a graphics card is put into place, which will be a G90 when ever ti comes out (or 8800 when prices drop)!

 

[MumboJumbo]

Somthing like that lol.

But the case is my main worry and the mother board im not 100% on but i could get by on what i know.

I need a case with good ventilation but it must not suck up fur or dust due to a very furry dog. So im a bit stuck.


And if its got a front door, does it have to be open because the fans are at the front? that seems stupid because it will jsut get broke! lol.

 

[Nebzor]

Somthing like that lol.

But the case is my main worry and the mother board im not 100% on but i could get by on what i know.

I need a case with good ventilation but it must not suck up fur or dust due to a very furry dog. So im a bit stuck.


And if its got a front door, does it have to be open because the fans are at the front? that seems stupid because it will jsut get broke! lol.

Most have space between the front door and fan intake, so air flow is still around with the door closed.

 

[Alex UK]

1) It's possible that by September you'll be able to get a Q6700 for around £200 - £220, although you may have to wait a little longer, possibly into October or November.

2) Any Quad Core will be able to run with the stock fan as long as you don't overclock.

3) No, cases such as the Antec P182 don't have to have the door open to be able to work. They'll work just fine with the door closed.

4) Personally, I would go with the P182. It is very spacious, which will of course allow for future upgrades. It also has very good cooling abilities due to the 'tri-cool' fans. Finally, it is very quiet due to a high level of sound proofing.

5) You'll want to buy a motherboard based on the new 'P35' chipset. These boards will support future 'Penryn' processors, and some even support DDR3 RAM. At the moment, these are definitely the boards to go for. You can find the OcUK range of P35 motherboards here.

6) I don't know a huge amount about water cooling. However, I do know that it is only worthwhile if you are concerned about noise and overclocking. If you want a very quiet PC, then water cooling would be a sensible route to take. Also, if you plan to heavily overclock your hardware, then it may also be worthwhile. My personal opinion, is that if your not overly concerned about either of these things, then you should forget about water cooling. You'd be better off spending the money on hardware instead. However, if you did want a decent water cooling set up to cool your CPU and GPU, then it would likely set you back £150 - £200.

7) If you not planning on upgrading for a long time, then going with 64Bit Vista is probably the best option. It means you'll be ready for the future. As you rightly say, throughout the next six months many of the problems will be ironed out.

Good luck mate, and I hope that I have been of some help. I would be grateful if anyone could correct any mistake I may have made.

 

[MumboJumbo]

The exact answers i was looking for. Thankyou so much for your help

I think i will go with the p182. Im curious however as to how they work with the door closed? I thought there was a fan on the front behind the door?

 

[Alex UK]

As standard, there is no fan behind the front door, you'll have to buy your own unfortunately. However, there is enough room between the door and fan for air to circulate, so this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Shimmy]

As AlexUK has said.

Also, if you're worried about temperatures breaching 60 degrees, just get an aftermarket cpu air cooler. Many will idle at 30-40 degress and load at 40 - 50 degrees and allow for overclocking, and as stated the standard cooler will work fine but will give less opportunities to overclocking.

The reason why I am saying not to go down the water cooling path is that it is very expensive and will be nigh on impossible to include in your spec, with full tower, monitor and peripherals under £1000. Maybe even £1500

EDIT: Ohh and you can buy fans with filters too

 

[MumboJumbo]

Do you have the case then? I thought it came with a front fan. Ive been looking at cases all day long im probly getting confused between them.

I didn't think there was much space between the door and the gap forthe fan, but you probly know more then me.

So thats my case sorted. If i was to buy that case. What sort of fans should i put in the front? Just so i can see how much extra this case is gona cost me. Beacuse otherwize i dont think ill get it.

:Edit:

OOo and the £1000 wasn't really including the water cooling. As i intended on getting that at a later stage if required. I just read that the quads run really hot and that id need to get some fans on them anyway. But your probly right


:Edit2:


Hold on, it says it does have 3 fans?? But where is the lower chamber fan? Is it on the PSU bit? that would be great. But im curious as to how the air flow works. The rear and top both blow out... which ones blow from the outside in?

- 1 rear 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard)
- 1 top 120mm TriCool™ fan (standard)
- 1 lower chamber 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard)
- 1 front 120mm fan (optional)
- 1 middle 120mm fan (optional) to cool the VGA
- External fan control on the rear panel for the top and rear fans in the upper chamber

 

[Alex UK]

Ok, please do excuse the crude picture, but you can't really go wrong with MS Paint. Anyway, to clear this up once and for all. There are five fans in the drawing, three of which are standard. I've also illustrated the direction of air flow. The fan at the bottom of the case is standard. It draws air from the front of the case and passes it around the PSU. The two fans in the top left hand corner are both standard, and draw air in from the top and out from the back. The two fans in the middle are not standard, but can be used to improve cooling for the GPU. The fan on the right is mounted behind the door, and the fan on the left is mounted on the back of the HDD cage. If using this fan, then you won't be able to store any HDD's in that cage, you'll have to store them at the bottom.

If you did want to buy one or two extra fans, then I would recommend these. They are high performance, quiet fans. If your concerned about your GPU temperature, then you'll probably only need one extra fan, which you could mount behind the door. That way, you'll still have access to the top HDD cage.



Hope I have been of help, good luck mate.

 

[<F0rb>]

I think someone has already mentioned this, but it IS best to buy at one time. Prices are always changing, and new tech is always coming, so buying at different times leaves you vunerable to having old parts with top of the line equip, bottlenecking your system.

 

[MumboJumbo]

Thankyou for the drawing. It makes sence now. I was just curious as the fan at the bottem isn't achuly dirrectly attached to a wall and therefore is not pulling that much air in compared to the amount the two exhaust fans will be pushing out. Ill buy the extra fan you said to add it in behind the door and it all looks good.


As for buying it all at the same time, unfortunetly i just cannot afford to and i will need to upgrade my pc. But ii dont think ill end up with bottlenecking because im going to hopfuly get the Q6700 and most probly a G80 (after the price drop in november). The motherbord will be caperble of 4gb of ram and going to make sure i could support G90 incase.

Is there anything i should be conserned about then? DO you think i could end up with bottlenecking?


Thanks to all the replies so far. Im probly going to be asking a lot of questions on this forum over the next few weeks. I have many things im intrested in finding out about and you all seem very experianced

 

[Alex UK]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about buying parts at different times. If you buy the correct parts at the right time, then you can almost eliminate this problem. Based on the spec your suggesting, I wouldn't have thought bottlenecking would be an issue at all.

 

[MumboJumbo]

Good to hear. I didn't think id have to much trouble with bottle necking.

I love this forum, so many helpful people who know what they are talking about. Well i presume they do anyway

Bring on september

Im curious about clocking a quad core after reading some other posts...


Ive never clocked before but i really want to learn how! But can i only clock if i get the QX versions of the quad cores because i wont be able to afford one and i read they are the "GO" versions and the only ones that can be clocked up. The others can be clocked down?

I followed a few links to got to some thread on here about "GO". I was under the impression that "GO" just made them more efficient and that the others were still clockerble.


Also, do you know any good websites/videos for learning clocking and building pcs. Im currently looking my self.

 

[Alex UK]

Good to hear. I didn't think id have to much trouble with bottle necking.

I love this forum, so many helpful people who know what they are talking about. Well i presume they do anyway

Bring on september

Im curious about clocking a quad core after reading some other posts...


Ive never clocked before but i really want to learn how! But can i only clock if i get the QX versions of the quad cores because i wont be able to afford one and i read they are the "GO" versions and the only ones that can be clocked up. The others can be clocked down?

I followed a few links to got to some thread on here about "GO". I was under the impression that "GO" just made them more efficient and that the others were still clockerble.


Also, do you know any good websites/videos for learning clocking and building pcs. Im currently looking my self.

All processors can be overclocked, including the Q6600 and Q6700. I think what you were talking about was the 'multiplier'. In the QX6700/QX6800/QX6850 range of CPU's, the multiplier can be raised or lowered. However, the 'multiplier' can not be raised on the Q6600/Q6700 CPU's. The 'X' in the name signifies that the processor is 'extreme' and so extra features are unlocked. The 'multiplier' is the number by which the FSB is multiplied, to give the clock speed.

For example, the Q6600's multiplier is 9, and it has a stock FSB of 266MHz. So, 266 x 9 = 2400MHz (2.4GHz). If you wanted to overclock your CPU to 3GHz, then you would raise the FSB to 333MHz. So, 333 x 9 = 3000MHz (3.0GHz).

To be honest I'm probably not explaining it very well, however there are some useful guides:

C2D Beginners Overclocking Guide

C2D Overclocking Guide v1.1

Intel Overclocking Guide

Although the first two guides above are for C2D CPU's, the same thing applies to C2Q CPU's. They contain all the information you'll ever need.

As for 'GO' CPU's, these are just a particular range of CPU's which should run cooler and overclock better.

Probably the best guide to building a PC can be found below:

Corsair Labs: Building a PC

Good luck mate.

 

[MumboJumbo]

Very well explained achuly. I get it now

Thanks.

I shall be reading through those tomorrow as im incredibly tired and need bed as its half 12 now

Thanks to everyone.