Buying phillips x2hr will my dac help at all?

[gearsplayer]

So I'm looking to buy a brand new pair of headphones and the xh2rs seems like a nice pair.

Extra info: I have the x470 taichi

1) Will my gen 1 astro mix amp/dac help/hurt at all in terms of sound quality compared to my motherboard audio?

2) will I gain much benefit going out and buying a decent amp?

3) will the x2hr be a massive upgrade compared to my gen 1 Astros?

4) are the x2hr good for hearing footsteps like in cod/battlefield and also good for immersive sound like in the witcher?


Thanks guys

 

[Marsman]

Better to use the Mixamp than the onboard audio. Quality of onboard audio varies depending on board and codec used, but even the best onboard audio won't be something that is going to be noticeably superior to something like the Mixamp. With the Mixamp, you get access to Dolby Headphone; something that you won't get by using onboard audio of your motherboard.

For the Philips Fidelio X1/2 headphones; I don't really see the point in looking at a better amp, because the headphones are easy to drive and won't see much benefit really from a better amp. Something like a Creative G6 would be an improvement over the Mixamp, but that is mainly because of Creative's SBX Prostudio, which is better than Dolby, which is used on Astro devices.

Fidelio's will be a marked improvement over Astro's headsets, and while they are good headphones, AKG K702 are better for FPS games. The Fidelio's will offer more bass though, whereas the AKG's are more neutral, which makes them better for FPS games and sound locating. Comes down to preference really; some people prefer a headphone with more bass that is more fun, you could say, such as the Fidelio X1/2. For pure gaming performance though, the K702's can't really be topped.

If you were to consider the AKG K702's instead; the caveat is, that they are a harder load than the Fidelio's. They need a beefier amp than the Fidelio's and the Mixamp is really best suited to headphones that don't really need a good headphone amp. Fidelio X1/2 + Mixamp, is a good match. For the AKG's, a Creative G6 would be a better choice as that has a much better headphone amp. K702's will work with the Mixamp, but likely not as well as they can with a G6.

 

[gearsplayer]

Better to use the Mixamp than the onboard audio. Quality of onboard audio varies depending on board and codec used, but even the best onboard audio won't be something that is going to be noticeably superior to something like the Mixamp. With the Mixamp, you get access to Dolby Headphone; something that you won't get by using onboard audio of your motherboard.

For the Philips Fidelio X1/2 headphones; I don't really see the point in looking at a better amp, because the headphones are easy to drive and won't see much benefit really from a better amp. Something like a Creative G6 would be an improvement over the Mixamp, but that is mainly because of Creative's SBX Prostudio, which is better than Dolby, which is used on Astro devices.

Fidelio's will be a marked improvement over Astro's headsets, and while they are good headphones, AKG K702 are better for FPS games. The Fidelio's will offer more bass though, whereas the AKG's are more neutral, which makes them better for FPS games and sound locating. Comes down to preference really; some people prefer a headphone with more bass that is more fun, you could say, such as the Fidelio X1/2. For pure gaming performance though, the K702's can't really be topped.

If you were to consider the AKG K702's instead; the caveat is, that they are a harder load than the Fidelio's. They need a beefier amp than the Fidelio's and the Mixamp is really best suited to headphones that don't really need a good headphone amp. Fidelio X1/2 + Mixamp, is a good match. For the AKG's, a Creative G6 would be a better choice as that has a much better headphone amp. K702's will work with the Mixamp, but likely not as well as they can with a G6.

I really don't want to spend more on another amp to power beefy headphones.

Thanks for all that info. Your statement about the x2s kinda agree with what I've been reading about then today. In terms of fps gaming will the x2hrs still be a good improvement over my Astros?


My gen 2 mix amp won't give virtual Dolby surround on my PC but will on console via optical cable, but I could just buy Dolby Atmos if I want virtual surround on pc. From what I've read virtual surround is a bit of a meme/gimmick and I should just stick to stereo.

Do you have any thoughts on x2hr Vs sennheiser game one headsets? The x2hr cost £30 more due to needing a mic.

 

[Marsman]

I'd be surprised if the Fidelio's aren't an improvement over the Astro's; but personal preference does come into it. Opinion differs somewhat on the Astro's; some people like them, some don't think they are very good.

I'd forgotten previously that detail about the Mixamp; that do get Dolby to work properly with PC, it needs to receive a Dolby Digital signal. Most motherboards don't have the software capability for that. In such a case, to get the Mixamp to work properly with PC, you'd need a sound card to supply Dolby Digital. Of course; if you buy a sound card, then might as well just use that. With console, Dolby Headphones works as it should, as consoles output Dolby Digital signal. For PC, it would certainly be cheaper to just buy Dolby Atmos for headphones software, or better yet, Creative's SBX Prostudio software, which will work with any audio device.

Whether virtual surround sound is considered a gimmick, depends on who you speak to. Some think it is and will always prefer stereo; others find it works very well for them, particularly Creative's SBX Prostudio, which is the best of the bunch.

I thought the Sennheiser Game One etc was superseded by their GSP500/600. Not really sure how they would compare to the Philips Fidelio X2 for gaming.

@EsaT Maybe you could offer some insight.

 

[gearsplayer]

Yeah you're right since I have gen 2 Astros that don't have PC mode (I think gen 3+ have a built in sound card) the amp will just give me stereo sound via USB on PC.

I'm just going to pick up the x2hrs. They're going to cost me £112 new since Amazon gave me a £33 gift card cos of their mess up.

 

[Marsman]

That's a really good price.

Not that long ago they were less readily available and £230 or there about.

 

[EsaT]

From what I've read virtual surround is a bit of a meme/gimmick and I should just stick to stereo.

With Astro quality headphones immersion is no doubt more or less crappy no matter how good signal is fed into them.
Binaural cues are many magnitudes more demanding for headphones than any stereo content (like music) and bad headphones rape even the best signal into "head in bucket under water" sound.
If I had used gaming brand garbages instead of good headphones certainly would have thought very differently about binaural sound.

Even expensive "audiophile" headphones aren't necessarily good for binaural sound, by having some inaccurate sound fashion tuning.
Like famous for music Sennheiser HD650 being worser for gaming than HD598.

Then binaural sound simulation (what HRTF algorithm does) quality is another factor.
Some are plain crap.
Like Razer Surround sounding like basic downmixing, with some fancy equalizer to make it sound different.
But then again it's made by gaming garbage company for gaming garbages.
Also Windows Sonic for Headphones is apparently broken in PCs, sounding basic downmixing.
Though neither Xbox game videos with it sound exactly that good.

And while decades old and very overhyped Dolby Headphone does well in directionality, it's very prone to bloating of bass and serious echo.
Listening it first time reminded me instantly about "atmosphere" of public paths with water and those ceramic tiled surfaces being highly reflective for sound waves.
Have read others saying it sounding like gothic cathedral.
After bass neutral HRTFs it sounds just about tolerable with bass neutral AKG K702.
Above neutral bass punch of Fidelio X1/X2 (like AKG K712 and Beyer DT990) makes that bass bloat annoying.


Third factor is listener's head:
The way we hear in 3D with two ears is by shape of the head (+pinnae) causing direction dependant changes to signal received by both ears from sound source.
Brain simply processes sound source location from those binaural cues.
But because of that "upstair's guy" failing to standardize head shape cues vary between persons.
So HRTF algorithm designed for some average head shape is more or less compromise for most people.
And if your head shape differs lot from average immersion suffers easily lot.

Hopefully in few months we have solution to that problem.
In last year Creative released "Super X-Fi" named tech, which uses HRTF algorithm customizing by analyzing head shape from pictures of face and ears.
They just released it only in audiophile overpriced USB dongle for phones without even control software for PCs. (+ couple headphones)
That should change now with "Project Accent" code named external USB sound card planned for release in this quarter:
https://us.creative.com/upgrade/

I'm just going to pick up the x2hrs. They're going to cost me £112 new since Amazon gave me a £33 gift card cos of their mess up.

That's steal.

When you get them compare first minutes of this to 12:57+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI

Also stereo with its lovely "inside left ear/right ear or in the middle of head" sound in here:
https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=50s
Binaural sound here:
https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=6m19s

 

[gearsplayer]

@EsaT

Wow thanks for such a detailed response. I was just about the buy my x2hrs.

Yeah I stopped using Dolby surround is sounds like I'm playing every game inside a cave.

Aside from the x2s us there any headphones you'd recommend for gaming? Csgo and games like the Witcher?

I'm torn between the k712 and x2s atm. K712 will cost me £30 more.

Btw will I need an amp for the k712 or will my astro amp be ok.

I'm open to suggestions but I'd like the headphones to be compatible with the v Moda mic and I'd prefer not to have to buy an expensive amp to get it running.

Thanks

 

[EsaT]

Yeah I stopped using Dolby surround is sounds like I'm playing every game inside a cave.

Aside from the x2s us there any headphones you'd recommend for gaming? Csgo and games like the Witcher?

I'm torn between the k712 and x2s atm. K712 will cost me £30 more.

Btw will I need an amp for the k712 or will my astro amp be ok.

I'm open to suggestions but I'd like the headphones to be compatible with the v Moda mic and I'd prefer not to have to buy an expensive amp to get it running.

Compared to Dolby's brand image Dolby Headphone was sure major disappointment.

What's best depend on what kind sound you want in games:
Highest "competitiveness" with easiest to pick up foot steps etc details, at expense of bass.
Or some "fun factor" with better bass punch, but with it making simultaneous details harder to distinguish.

For best competitiveness/details AKG K702 is one the absolute top choises.
Unlike more expensive "audiophile" headphones with their fashion sound, it's designed for pathologically analytical neutral sound.
Obviously with neutral bass "staying in back seat", instead of making bigger noise of itself than asked by signal bass immersion is average.
But that helps to keep details alike foot steps easy to distinguish.
With well fitting HRTF it's pretty much "aural god mode/wall hack" and next step up would be game showing locations of sound sources in on screen map.
(which would be of course slower method than just listening)

On mechanical design there's down side:
That "automatically" adjusting head band.
If you have small and especially downward narrowing head it can easily feel like ear cups keep crawling down, because they rely also on pressure to stay on position.
With bigger head it could again feel like pressing head.


For balance between details and fun factor AKG K712 is strong contender.
Basically AKG modified K702 so that there's ~3dB more bass and overall more lower end instead of that "cold analytical" neutral sound.
That increases fun factor good amount, while competitiveness goes step down to "just" very good level.
For comfort it shares K702's plusses and minuses.
But ear pads are different and AKG's replacements cost literally arm and leg...
As in almost price of whole K702!

Beyerdynamic DT990 (which I also own) is another great headphone for balanced gaming.
Overall it wins K712 little in bass punch while losing same amount in details, though winning K712 around few kHz, where K712 has dip in response.
As big positive side manually adjustable head band fits to both small and big head and replacement ear pads are very affordably priced compared to AKG.

Fidelio should be pretty similar with good balance between bass punch and details.
Don't own it, or have chance to try it anywhere, so can't say precisely how it compares in sound or comfort.
Though weight is quite hefty.
And replacement pads are apparently really hard to find.


AKGs are pretty demanding headphones and would need something like Sound BlasterX AE-5/G6.
Actually 250 ohm Beyerdynamic is easier to drive.
It needs less electric power per dB and especially current draw is lot lower.
Fidelio is again very easy to drive headphone as far as getting lots of dBs is concerned.
(again for high electric damping factor it needs low output impedance)
Anyway wouldn't buy currently any sound card until knowing what that "Project Accent" results.
Though for gaming/movies it should curb stomp anything else in immersion thanks to customizable HRTF.


For use with mic detachable cable AKGs could be used with V-Moda with adapter.
Though might be hard to find fitting commersionally made adapter needing some DIY:
https://imgur.com/a/MUihO

ModMic again works nicely...
As it does likely with almost any headphone.

Beyerdynamic's old no fashion, only functionality design again would be easy and cheap to DIY mod, if you have separate 3,5mm plug mic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/bKU4H

 

[Marsman]

will I need an amp for the k712 or will my astro amp be ok.

I think you're going to be better off with the Fidelio X2's for use with the Mixamp. K702 and K712 are better for gaming, but they are also more demanding headphones. It really depends though on your preferred level of listening as to whether the Mixamp will have enough for the AKG's.

At lower volumes, the Mixamp should have no trouble. At higher volume, it might struggle to give the desired level of volume the listener will be happy with.

Could always buy the K712's and return them if you find the Mixamp doesn't drive them as loud as you'd like.

When trying to determine how easy or difficult a headphone is to drive, people often refer to the impedance Ohm rating. Those without more knowledge, will base a decision on that alone. In a lot of cases, it can be a good indicator, but in the instance of the AKG K702/712, going by impedance is not enough.

As an example; Sennheiser HD598 are known as easy to drive headphones and have an impedance rating of around 50 Ohm. The K702/712 are 62 Ohm, but need 4x as much power for the same dB SPL (loudness) as the HD598. As Esat has mentioned, DT770/990 are 250 Ohm (4x the impedance of the AKG's), but they are easier to drive than the AKG's, requiring half a much power for the same dB SPL.

 

[gearsplayer]

@EsaT

Thanks again for the detailed response.

I was reading about the dt 990s and they're apparently great for gaming but have really high highs or something? Which can put people off.


The k712/990s seem like great picks for myself but I just can't justify spending £100+ on an amp/dac + have to mod or have more cables hanging from the headphones for a mic.


For my budget and needs right now I think the x2hrs and v Moda mic is the best all rounder for me.



I've heard the x2hrs are quite bass heavy, will this hurt much for games like csgo/cod compared to the 990s? Also even in games like csgo will the x2s be a nice improvement over my Astros?


Last question.
Will my 2013 astro mix amp hold back the x2hrs by much if anything at all? I could pick up a fiio amp but am I wasting £60 at that point?

 

[gearsplayer]

@Marsman I think the x2hrs will do fine too. As long as in csgo/cod they're better than my Astros I'll be happy. I'm certain they'll be waaay better at everything else

Thought it ask people more in the know so I don't buy "gaming" garbage again

 

[Marsman]

Yeah, the DT770/990's have what is known as a V shaped sound signature; elevated treble and bass with slightly recessed mid range. It can be too much for some people; it really comes down to preference.

Having said that, and comparing them to the K712's; there was another member recently who created a thread having bought both K712 and DT990. He seemed to find that the increased treble of the DT990 aided them in being better for placing sounds like others players footsteps easier. English isn't his first language and to put it bluntly, he was quite hard work. He gave the impression he found more detail with the DT990's, even though technically, the K712's should make for a better FPS gaming headphone. I suppose that highlights there is no one size fits all and experiences differ, so it can be hard to say to someone headphone [insert make and model] will be the better choice for them.

Not being able to test and compare more easily makes it tricky, without resorting buying and returning a lot of headphones.

I don't see why the Mixamp will hold back the Philips Fidelio headphones at all. They are easy to drive and the Mixamp is primarily designed for Astro's headsets I would imagine, which will also be easy to drive.

No point in looking at a FiiO amp. You'd only really look at getting one if you were using maybe K702/712 headphones and had no interest in getting positional sound placement from the likes of Dolby Headphone or SBX prostudio, etc.

One thing I hadn't really thought about until just now looking back at previous posts, is where you put, 'I'd like the headphones to be compatible with the v Moda mic'. That is something which is pretty easy to do with the Fidelio headphones. Can't happen with the Beyerdynamic's, as they have a fixed cable and the AKG's require a mini XLR to 3.5mm adaptor. That adds bulk and distance from the microphone to the mouth. Fidelio X2's are ideal really.

 

[gearsplayer]

Thanks guys. Just bought the x2hrs. I think the astro headsets are around 40 ohms

Yeah it seems the k712 are the "best" choice if youre after every possible advance in fps games.


My 2013 amp is getting old now and at the age where I'm wondering if it's going to break soon.

Are you able to give some suggestions for a amp/dac combo? Mainly so I can save it on my wishlist encase my amp dies

Things I'd like it to do
1) be compatible with console (optical in)
2) be compatible with v Moda mic and not cause hissing
3) be able to power higher power requirement headphones without issue (future proofing/if x2s have a short life)

 

[EsaT]

Are you able to give some suggestions for a amp/dac combo? Mainly so I can save it on my wishlist encase my amp dies

Things I'd like it to do
1) be compatible with console (optical in)
2) be compatible with v Moda mic and not cause hissing
3) be able to power higher power requirement headphones without issue (future proofing/if x2s have a short life)

Sound BlasterX G6 has optical input and supports DD5.1 for getting surround sound from consoles.
Also it has direct button for enabling/disabling processing (including HRTF) making it easy to change between gaming/movies and stereo sound.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crea...-sound-card-pc-ps4-xbox-switch-sc-107-cl.html
It has quite good headphone output enough for most headphones.
And have gotten confirmation in Finish PC forum about it working clear and loud at least with ModMic.

Though customized HRTF is certainly going to win.
Creative will just likely price that coming Super X-Fi sound card around £200 considering price of SBX G6.
But then again Sennheiser sells gaming hype trinket GSX with low end hardware for that price level.
(worser DAC than budget level Audigy Fx/Xonar DGX and no more amplifier than typical phone/tablet)

Not being able to test and compare more easily makes it tricky, without resorting buying and returning a lot of headphones.

And who knows if makers also do smaller changes over time.
Wouldn't really need that much of smoothing K712 toward that "warm" sound to give DT990 advantage.
Also my DT990 is like seven years old, so could have gotten some small change after that.

 

[gearsplayer]

Lucky for me (I think) I'm comg from Astros so any "audiophile" like headphones should be an improvement. So no need to be an RMA machine .

The only aspect I'm worried about is the x2s taking a step back in terms of positional direction in csgo, cod EST. I guess I'll find out soon

 

[EsaT]

The only aspect I'm worried about is the x2s taking a step back in terms of positional direction in csgo, cod EST. I guess I'll find out soon

With Astros being standard closed design gaming trinkets there's little danger of that.
Even if X2 has smoother treble than DT990 open design helps things lot.
(while "agressive" for music, Beyer's treble works well in gaming balancing bass)

CSGO has built in HRTF, so you can use that in it for improving immersion over stereo.

 

[gearsplayer]

Been using the x2hrs for a few hours now and they're great....to a point but that may be me needing to get used to new headphones.

Music (mostly rock)
AMAZING

Gaming
Here's where I'm like idk. So in single player battlefield it's just sooooooo good I honestly feel like I'm in a warzone

Multiplayer
....idk. So the game sounds great but I'm having a harder time pin pointing where footsteps are coming from as other sounds seem to drown then out.
I may just need more time to get used to them.


Aside from sound whoring (which may be be used I've been using Astros for 6 years), these x2s blow my Astros out the water.

I'm going to keep using these and see if I can get more accustomed in multiplayer scenario.

 

[EsaT]

Been using the x2hrs for a few hours now and they're great....to a point but that may be me needing to get used to new headphones.

Music (mostly rock)
AMAZING

If you think stereo sounds good try binaural recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpNtNCqP94g

Also first listen few minutes of this from start and then go to 12m57s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI

 

[gearsplayer]

@EsaT WOW.

I'll never buy "gaming" headsets again. I'm honestly blown away with how headphones sound compared to my old Astros.

What I will say is I feel like the x2hrs lean heavily in the "fun" department.

When I do hear things such as footsteps it's hard to pinpoint what direction they are coming from and also the distance. But in terms of fun and immersion, they're great.

I do feel that the k712 or dt990s may have been better suited for me as you stated they're balanced between fun and competitiveness.

Between the dt990s and 712 which would you pick? I've read the highs on the 990s can be a bit harsh.

In gaming + competitive I assume they'll be relatively equal.

For music I love rock but I'll listen to other stuff too.


For a dac+amp I think the g6 would fit my needs of both pc and console compatibility. Do you know of a similar dacamp that has a game+voice knob?

I'm going to continue to use my x2s up to the 14 day return period and make a decision as I may just need to get used to them.