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Campaign to end the 'stigma' of obesity

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Uther, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    As far as cooking goes, that is your own responsibility. No one should need to teach you to cook in the same way that no one should need to teach you to do basic DIY like drill a hole in the wall or replacing a windscreen wiper.

    You have grown up eating food every day so what is edible isn't a foreign concept, are well aware of what is and isn't good for you and now have the power of the internet at your disposal. Just have a go and the fact that you require regular food to survive means that you will be half decent in no time!
     
  2. nox_uk

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 12, 2006

    Posts: 626

    yep but times change. When I left home I moved from the country to a city and shortly after came the onslaught of ready meals (showing my age here) This was also before the internet existed in it's current form - if you wanted to access it, you needed to go to a library/university and the information freely available these days wasn't back then. My assumption at the time was it was just as healthy as what I ate at home in the years preceeding - in my mind a carrot was a carrot, (niave I now know) the fact that one was laced in preservatives, commonly sugar, didn't cross my mind. So roll on to today - no one is teaching people about what foods are great and which are comparatively poor. Yes the information is there, but I needed a reason to go find it, a reason many don't have. My question is where should this education lie? Parents who weren't taught this in schools or by their parents (because food was prepared completely differently back in those days) or elsewhere?! I can completely understand where the problem is coming from :(

    I do disagree about needing to be taught about drilling a hole in a wall though - theres lots many don't consider like what will be hanging on it or are there sockets directly below where you want to drill (hidden cables tend to run vertically) and really about cooking, it's more of what you should be eatting. Anyone can get a recipe book and follow instructions, but there are plenty of recipe books that contain nothing but cakes with a picture of a slim person on the front... Food 'science' exists these days, and a ton of information now freely available, which simply wasn't in the 70's. Back then I was taught how to repair a car, build a shed etc but the what & why I should eat particular foods wasn't.

    But this is going a bit off the 'end the stigma of obesity.' Personally, I don't think being obese is healthy, so are we actually talking about ending the stigma of being unhealthy? In which case go ahead and leave the stigma - it'll be good for evolution and if it encourages even 1 person to lead a healthier lifestyle, surely that's good right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  3. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,794

    If we still lived under survival of the fittest then yea, dumb/lazy people would die off. But we live in survival of the fattest, so we have a world full of fat useless people :/
     
  4. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    My point is that not knowing how to cook is a choice. You don't have to 'learn' you just have to have a go.

    Eating healthy is a choice, albeit a harder one for some people but still a choice.

    If you are an adult these days and have little concept of what is healthy and what isn't or feel you have to buy unhealthy food due to lack of skills/money - then you have have been failed by at least your school, parents and mainly yourself.
     
  5. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

  6. fez

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 22, 2008

    Posts: 12,673

    Location: Sidcup

    There is 0 excuse for not knowing how to do something simple these days. The internet could teach you how to build a nuclear reactor so I don't think there is an excuse for not cooking yourself and using the excuse of ignorance. If this was America then I wouldn't give a single ****. If you want to kill yourself early by being a fat ******* then go for it, you will either die early or pay out of your own pocket. What I resent is a sizeable portion of my tax contribution going towards keeping people alive who can't be bothered to take even the most basic care of their own bodies.
     
  7. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    That's fair enough. However, when it comes to obesity, the biggest problem is actually more with children than it is with adults, because statistically obesity in childhood, is more likely to follow an individual for life all the way through till adulthood and early death.

    With that in mind, do you feel comfortable assigning blame, whilst the food industry target and hijack the biology of children to make money, by employing techniques such as;
    • Targeted saturation advertising, aimed at a young audience, especially through social media.
    • Every element of sweet junk food being designed, to provide maximum pleasure, whilst providing zero satisfaction or sustenance.
    • The 'bliss point' of junk food, is actually benchmarked against the optimal sweetness for a child, something they find irresistible
    • 70%+ of the contents of any supermarket exists solely as comfort food, and most of it contains added sugars which we simply don't need,
    • All of the above is being powered by $Billions in research, marketing and science.
    If you take a step back from our environment, and you look at how it's changed since the 1980s, is it really so unreasonable to think, that the environment we've created for ourselves might actually be the root cause of the problem here, rather than the people within that environment, 68% of whom have all failed somehow?

    I'd predict, that if you took healthy people and you moved them into a western country with a western diet, they'd go exactly the same way within a decade 50-60% of them would be obese, because the people aren't the problem, the environment the people in is essentially toxic.
     
  8. fez

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 22, 2008

    Posts: 12,673

    Location: Sidcup

    I agree that there is plenty we can do to make it easier to stay healthy but the problem is that anyone who says "its hard to cook", "its expensive to cook", "I don't know how to cook" will not change due to advertising being banned on junk food or limiting the sugar in foods. I want to be able to buy food that is tasty and bad for me when I want to because I don't do it often and I am capable of looking after myself. I don't think I should either have to pay ridiculous money for it or simply not be able to get it because some people can't resist it.

    I think we need to heavily discourage people from being unhealthy and the only way to do that realistically is to either charge them ridiculous amounts for junk food or withhold free healthcare for obesity related illness.
     
  9. krooton

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 24,972

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    If you don't buy bad food often, why would it being more expensive really matter?
     
  10. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    I think you're misunderstanding the scale of the problem. If it's true that you can look after yourself and you can resist junk food most of the time - then you're part of an increasingly dwindling minority, because around 68% of adults are overweight or obese. Most people - not some, are unable to resist a poor quality western junk diet, otherwise there we wouldn't be in the midst of a health crisis.

    The way I see the problem, is people are behaving exactly as I'd expect when we create an environment where everything is easy and convenient, we live in a world where you can order unlimited amounts of amazing tasting junk direct to your door, for the whole family in 20 minutes using an app on your phone. We behave and talk as though it's always been like this - but it hasn't, these things have only really existed for a decade, and they're wrecking our health.

    And let's face it - if you openly admit you don't buy bad food very often, would it really hurt so bad, if we passed legislation severely limiting or restricting the production and distribution of it?

    I'm not suggesting we live in a world where there's zero bad food, I'm suggesting that the proliferation of it has gotten so far out of control and our environment has been so detrimentally affected by it, that allowing it to be distributed and consumed in the quantities it is today - is simply going to allow the problem to continue and get worse.

    Go back 30 years - most towns would have a chippy, maybe a Chinese and maybe a cake shop and one or two cafes, maybe 1 fast food outlet. Nowadays it's just absolutely insane, if you zoom out and look at the problem - it's completely obvious that the majority of people are overweight or obese because the environment is so heavily rigged against them being healthy. If you do the same things with rats in a lab - surround them with terrible food, they become obese, if you present a junk western diet to Najavo and Hopi indians in the USA - guess what, they become obese..
     
  11. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,281

    20-30 years ago, junk food was considered a rare treat, now it's just normal everyday food.
     
  12. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    The toxic industry will always cater to the market. You can put restrictions on industry and though that will stop places selling really unhealthy stuff but where will you draw the line?

    You can restrict advertising, you can put a minimum cost or tax fast food products but what else can you do?

    There are plenty of countries where fast food has struggle to take hold due to the local culture and peoples view on food. In Italy it simply was not fashionable and it didn't seem appealing compared to real home cooked food.

    If we want to fix the obesity problem it requires both the consumer to accept responsibility for their own diet and the industry to make it easier, it requires a cultural shift. Considering what it is, fast food shouldn't be so cheap or easy
     
  13. krooton

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 24,972

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    But even their young generation is falling in the trap :(
     
  14. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    That is true but not because its an inevitability and there is no reason why they or we cannot make ready meals or unhealthy fast food unfashionable again. You can argue that we would be fighting a losing battle against large industries but at the end of the day, they react to consumers. Bring your kids up properly, eat properly yourself and put an emphasis on being healthy and eventually the fast food places and supermarkets will change.

    Alternatives to meat were very expensive not long ago but with a huge shfit in popularity you can now by quorn as cheap or cheaper than meat. Supermarkets now have their own brand vegetarian ranges. Every pub/restaurant has more alternatives to meat dishes.
     
  15. nox_uk

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 12, 2006

    Posts: 626

    So much this. Bodyworld exhibition is a scary slice of what obesity looks like from the inside, quite amazing really. You can see the problem first hand in most towns and cities where entire streets have changed from have a few take aways, cafes or restaurants to these days where they outnumber normal shops.
     
  16. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 20,489

    Location: Cornwall

    Yeah I have no "skill" in cooking; I don't "know how to cook".

    But I sure can follow a recipe, and have a really nice book of awesome recipes (plus the 'net of course).

    End result is I can cook myself a nice meal - just not from memory, and certainly not due to knowing anything at all about cooking artistry.
     
  17. jpaul

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,784

    so BBC an others seem to misprepresent the new research

    what the research paper says

    paper does not , afaiks, say how they established thick and thin (that's the power of tefal) people in the study had similar calories/diet ?
     
  18. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 18,777

    Location: County Durham

    Articles like that BBC one are quite damaging, will this be the new excuse instead of "He/She is just big boned".
     
  19. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    Yeah I think it is bad, not only is it misrepresenting the contents of the study, but it propagates a false message that obesity is down to things like luck, which isn't going to help people understand the actual root cause of their obesity - which in the vast majority of cases, is overeating and bad diet.

    It doesn't make that much sense when you look at the population in general, if you go back to pre 1980 - just about everyone was slim, so if our genes have changed so dramatically in under 40 years (which is a blink of an eye) to the point where we're 68% overweight or obese, and the genes are a significant cause - I'd find that pretty difficult to believe. Even more so in the presence of a much simpler and obvious cause - propagation of terrible food, convenience, child-advertising, inactivity, etc..

    It would require extraordinary evidence to believe genes are a significant driving factor for obesity in normal everyday people.
     
  20. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,794

    It's a very weird genetic problem which only effects people who eat to much food and don't exercise...

    We need some kind of investigation which meets BBC P.C standards.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019