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Campaign to end the 'stigma' of obesity

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Uther, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,407

    Location: Surrey

    I will tell you my two cents of why as an Italian.

    The culture is (was) different. Fast food wasn't popular and neither was sugar crap. We have plenty of unhealthy foods but it simply isn't consumed in the same volume or frequency. At lunch time people dont go to Mcdonalds or KFC or Subway, they go home if they can and have lunch with the family. They way people eat in Italy is reminiscent of more traditional values where people sit down at lunch/dinner and have proper food rather than ready meals or takeaway.

    That said, that attitude is dying with the younger generation. What has changed except marketing and popular culture? Yes the blame with being obese is with the people but as you say, the companies are responsible with the increase in obesity and if we want to target this we have to target them to make things easier for people to remain healthy.
     
  2. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 2,696

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    Agreed, this is exactly what I'm saying.

    The situation is also true of many of the Mediterranean countries, I have a number of Portuguese and Greek friends - the older ones tend to stick to their traditional Mediterranean diet and statistically remain at a healthy weight, however it's the younger generations which are very rapidly running into problems - because they're the ones who are replacing their traditional diet with junk, probably because they're far easier to target as consumers by the food industry.
     
  3. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 5,576

    No,

    because you shouldn't need self control in order to avoid chronic over eating.

    You dont need self control to avoid over breathing and you do not need self control to avoid over drinking (Well, water anyway :p # )

    The only time people over breathe or over drink is if there is something medically wrong with them or if they have actually been poisoned (for example, E and Water toxicity, # and indeed Alcohol!)

    Up until the 1980's chronic overeating was rare. Now it is the new normal.

    Either there is some mysterious Virus/Bacteria/whatever that has made us all ill.

    Or we are all basically being poisoned!

    I tend towards the latter!

    This may seem a bit extreme, but when you take a step back and just look, objectively, at how this plague has blighted the lives of hundreds of millions of people. I dont actually think it is extreme enough.

    :(
     
  4. Jonnybmac

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 17, 2009

    Posts: 1,537

    Location: Brotton

    I dont get obesity. I've maintained a pretty average weight throughout my adult life. I eat what I want when I want, and generally eat the same if not more than my girlfriend who has to go to fitness classes 3-4 times a week to keep the weight off. Whether i exercise or become a slob nothing changes.

    Call it gross but the only thing i can presume happens differently is that i generally poo 3-4 times a day. It isn't even that i actually need one half the time i just sit and force one through. I think this gives increased movement tbroughout my body rather than allowing my body to digest everything. I don't really drink water either to be honest.
     
  5. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 2,696

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    That is actually a very interesting and effective point, I never thought of it - but the more I think of it the more it makes real sense.

    For me; They built a new Dominos pizza place across the road from my apartment, and I can't stand it - because I know just how much I like to sit in front of the TV, with a 3000 calorie large stuffed-crust pepperoni and a coke and watch Netflix or whatever. I've done that once in the year since it's opened up, but I've had to really dig deep on a lot of occasions to resist the temptation to go in and gorge.

    Honestly - I wish someone would swing a wrecking ball through it, because I don't want to live in a world where I'm being tempted left right and center to gorge myself, I shouldn't need to maintain a force-field of self-control just to stay healthy.

    Sometimes it feels as though the environment is trying as hard as it possibly can, to make me take bad choices and become unhealthy, to stay on the straight and narrow sometimes feels like a very difficult battle.
     
  6. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    You just need to poo more if you want to eat those pizzas Ive heard.
     
  7. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 5,576


    Having spent 15 years of my life living opposite a Pub. I feel your pain! :p
     
  8. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,407

    Location: Surrey

    It is funny because sometimes all it often takes is a change in mindset for you to completely go the other way and reject unhealthy food. Some people are as put off as people are tempted (just look at how many have food disorders at the other end of the scale, many of which are not at all obvious on first glance).

    I use to eat loads of crap every day, knowing full well what i was doing. In some weird way, knowing how i was gorging was part of the decadent satisfaction of it. Since changing my diet and being really motivated to achieve certain aesthetic goals through diet and gyming, i now very rarely eat crap. I don't avoid stuff because i'll feel guilty or I think it will set my goals back, i simply just don't ever feel the need to. I keep an eye on what i eat because i really enjoy doing it. At first i could say it is what you would consider 'a diet' in that i did it for the sake of it against my temptations but now it is just what i do because that is what i am happy doing. If anything, i am less critical (if at all critical) with myself for straying from my normal food habits but I am far more consistent.
     
  9. Andrew_McP

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2003

    Posts: 2,329

    Location: South North West

    Oxygen isn't in short supply, so over-breathing was never an issue for our primitive brains. But for most of human history securing calories was was our primary motivation, and probably drove the evolution of our brains. Yes, you need to procreate occasionally and stop the next tribe stealing your stuff, but every day was a battle to get enough energy onboard. That often meant surviving on very little to make sure there was something left for tomorrow, so we became very good at hoarding calories in the form of fat. If you eat the excess before it spoils, nobody can steal it. And the more you store, the longer you'll survive, the more likely you are to pass on your genes.

    It's only very recently that mass production (based on very cheap, petrochemical availability and imaginative food processing) has turned food into ultra-affordable entertainment rather than ultra-necessary fuel. Our monkey brains are not equipped to handle this unless our lives are well balanced, rewarded, or vain enough that we can impose rational willpower onto constant and rather wonderful (in moderation) temptation.

    Most people's lives are messy and stressful these days, and supermarkets & takeaways are amusement parks for the taste buds, so obesity is here to stay... at least until the oil starts to run out, modern agriculture is no longer sustainable, and food pricing return to historical levels.

    FWIW I'm old enough to remember when 'if you can pinch more than an inch' was a thing. I've always tried to keep to that, and always feel better for trimming right down. But now I'm a carer, with severe restrictions on my lifestyle, it's getting increasingly hard to beat my monkey brain away from the treat cupboard I need to tempt my mother into eating. Food is a terrible way to solve problems, but being stressed and miserable with a full belly feels a darned sight better than being stressed and miserable with an empty belly. At least until you wash your jeans and can't get them back on again. :->

    I'm not sure it helps much, but getting dementia seems, eventually, to be a great cure for obesity. The irony might be that lousy diets could be what's contributing towards the explosion in dementia in the first place. I know my mother had put on a lot of weight in the decade before her diagnosis... though correlation is not causation and the obesity might have been an early indication of her brain losing control after a sensible lifetime. Who know. Complex subject, and one that's not going to go away in a hurry.
     
  10. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,919

    I'm the same (minus the poo part). I've been roughly the same weight/build since I was a teenager. Much of it is genetics, but I also work full time and move around a lot so burn off a lot of energy. I don't sit on a couch watching TV all day.
     
  11. Jonnybmac

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 17, 2009

    Posts: 1,537

    Location: Brotton

    Is it genetics though? My dad and my I would comsider obese so I'm not too sure
     
  12. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,919

    Yes genetics are a part of it, but not an excuse :)

    Some people just have faster metabolisms and can eat and eat without putting weight on.
     
  13. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,407

    Location: Surrey

    I watched the 'Diet' episode of Explained on Netflix the other day. Much of it was obvious with some good clarification in there. A lot of people seem to blame genetics for being massively obese where the reality is that your genetics tend to favour a build or a set amount of fat or muscle and it is almost always a healthy amount with a reasonable diet. You can move away from this value by over/under eating and exercising but it is harder to stray too far from this value. That is not to say someone cannot become very muscly or very skinny/fat, just some have to work harder and longer for it than others. People who are considerably overweight are that way due to lifestyle choice unless they have a disorder.

    Another interesting fact was that the vast majority of those people who did stuff like 'the greatest loser' put on 60% of the weight lost within a year. This is all down to people becoming content with their weight and going back to their old habits. the best way to lose weight consistently and keep it off is not to find a diet that requires self control but rather a diet that can become a permanent habit.
     
  14. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 2,696

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    From the evidence I’ve seen, people who are obese for “genetic” reasons, are very very rare indeed. Usually it’s down to severe hormone problems - because energy storage into fat, or burning it is a hormonal process, but those diseases that actually contribute to obesity are very rare.

    Likewise are brain tumours - some brain tumours can upset the body’s hormones to the point where the unfortunate patient can become morbidly obese, with less than 2000 calories a day, along with other problems, it’s called hypothalamic obesity.

    The vast majority (pretty much everyone) are overweight or obese, because they’re eating too much high-calorie, bad food, exasperated by the fact that most people drastically underestimate the amount they’re consuming - or are simply unaware, especially in the case of sugar sweetened beverages or ridiculous coffee style drinks.
     
  15. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 5,759

    Location: South Shields

    there should be a stigma..its unhealthy and costs taxpayers money on the long run

    smoking was rightly highlighted as a long term health issue and there have been many campaigns and help for people to reduce or cut out smoking

    obesity should be treated teh sane way, as a long term public health issue
     
  16. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,407

    Location: Surrey

    I agree with obesity being campaigned against and a shift in attitude but certain stigmas can be very damaging to peoples mental and physical health.

    It is one thing to encourage and educate people to better their physical health and another entirely to make them ashamed of their own body, as the later does not necessarily mean they will strive for a different body. Studies have even shown that those who come under discrimination and fat shaming are less likely to lose weight.

    I do agree with some campaigns that show you can be healthy at different sizes, as this has led to far more overweight people taking on sports/exercise but i also disagree with the misinterpretation of these campaigns which has been taken to be 'its okay to be fat'.

    All it takes is a half decent diet and more than completely sedentary lifestyle to be of healthy weight. For me going to the gym is as much about reinforcing my goals/lifestyle as well as fun and I find that I am making much better nutritional decisions compared to times I slack off. I do remember how hard it was going in for the first few weeks/month, feeling like i don't belong because i wasn't in great shape and being new to it. I can only imagine how hard it might be for someone who is actually overweight or obese to start getting into the routine of the gym, as it can feel like you are being judged.
     
  17. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 2,696

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    I've helped several people lose weight (three in total), one guy in particular was only five foot five tall, but weighed just over 25 stone - so you can imagine how horrendous he looked. The situation involving his obesity was complex, he came from a very rough family and had an older brother who was a prolific drug dealer, quite often he (my friend) would help his brother out with his drug dealing issues, lending money, sometimes hanging around with other dealers and more senior criminals. To make matters worse, the family rallied around his brother, leaving my friend feeling largely ostracised. This in my opinion was the root cause of his over-eating and inactive lifestyle. Eventually we had a heart to heart conversation and I convinced him to come swimming with me, because I could see he was going to be dead before age 35.

    I used to be a competitive swimming (used to swim all over when I was in my teens) so we agreed that I'd just train with some ex-club swimmers, do my drills for 1 hour in the lanes - he can just swim up and down at his own pace wherever he likes and we'll see how it went. I remember him in the changing rooms - he had male breasts that hung down almost to his waist, he looked like an absolute total and utter monster. With his swim shorts barely visible below an apron of belly fat that hung down, he stood at the side of the pool amid gasps and giggles - mostly from young children who were all laughing and pointing, he jumped in and almost emptied the pool.

    I remember looking underwater and seeing what looked like some sort of barrel with two small pegs sticking out of it (his legs) kicking away, but I didn't judge him, I didn't laugh or insult him - I let him get on with it and he did try, 4 times a week for around 8-9 months we went, same routine, I had him eating healthily (not a diet, just normal healthy food) and he lost around 8 stone. In that time he was a transformed person - everybody noticed the change, his temperament changed, his college work improved - people no longer made fun of him and he became much more social - everything in his life rapidly improved.

    Then one day, I turned up at his house to continue the training routine and for some reason he would not go swimming. At the time I put it down to some sort of anomaly or bad day, but the next night - again, he wouldn't go, again the next night - I did a SGT Hartman on him and he still wouldn't go, nothing I could do would force him out of his bedroom away from his computer.

    Around that time - he started binge eating again with his brother, someone from college told me how they'd seen them together in McDonalds eating 10 big-macs between them, although I never verified that, the person had no reason to lie. In that time he put all the weight back on again and more, to cut a long story short - it wore me out, I was around 23 - full of ambition and drive I had some big career opportunities and big changes and we fell out, I never spoke to him again - it still hurts me to this day. His family indirectly blamed me for his relapse - but it was his brother who dragged him back into the abyss. Later on - I learnt that his brother tried to get out of the drug dealing crew and received a beating that put him into a coma, when he recovered he immediately moved to Australia and I never heard from him again either.

    For me it highlighted how for most people who are obese - there are other issues at play which are invisible to most people, people stigmatising him or making noises or verbally abusing him - wouldn't know of some of the deep and difficult problems in his life. Historically an outlet would be to drink or do drugs - in this environment binge-eating is a similar outlet, sit on the couch with a massive pizza and a fridge full of coke, binge-watching TV and playing games, in his case - he was out of sight out of mind, whilst his brother received all the attention, leaving me to try and get through to him - a venture I ultimately failed in, or perhaps was doomed for failure from the start.
     
  18. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 27,257

    Location: Surrey

    This.
     
  19. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,407

    Location: Surrey

  20. J.T

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 12, 2006

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