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Campaign to end the 'stigma' of obesity

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Uther, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. krooton

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 25,006

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    I would argue that more people likely cook now than in the past, where pretty much only women cooked (apart from male chefs).

    With so many recipes websites, celebrity chefs on tv, cooking books for days, people must be cooking more than ever, even with all the ready meals that are available (and ready meals have existed for many decades any way).
     
  2. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    I regularly cook, I play videos of people like Marcus wareing and Gordon Ramsay on my iPad next to the hob, if you put the effort in to learn you can knock up seriously tasty food that blows away any ready meal or fast food, often for only a few quid.

    However, I think we’ve created this environment where there’s an easy trouble free, effort free solution, to almost every problem, where historically there might not have been.

    Ultimately, on a average most people will take an easy solution when presented with one, whether it’s food, transportation, finance, anything - even if they have to pay some money for it, on average - people gravitate towards the easiest option that requires the least effort.

    So whilst I disagree with the idea that people don’t have enough time to do things properly, for me it’s more a case that they’re living in an environment packed full of shortcuts, especially dietary shortcuts. In the end that all adds up to what probably is quite a large factor.

    This is why I have a problem with blaming individuals, because when you look at it from a high level - for the most part, people are simply living within the realms of an environment that’s become too easy, too effortless and perhaps very dangerous for our health.
     
  3. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    I get what you are saying but then there are two options to solve the issue, remove the ability to choose the easy options or pressure/educate/encourage people to make that choice.

    I am all for industry restrictions but ultimately people need to make the attitude change themselves as there will always be an unhealthy easy option available.
     
  4. Hedge

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 17,049

    Location: Somewhere in the middle.

    I'm not gonna get preachy because I don't think its as black and white as some people make out.

    I'm blessed with some kinda good genetics where I don't put weight on like most people. I'm naturally skinny. My nephew however is about twice the size as me and his diet isn't so massively dissimilar to mine.

    I always said it was as simple as more food than energy burned but as I've gotten older and compared my diet with that of my larger friends I realised that there is definately some truth to the genetic aspect.
     
  5. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    I think trying to change people's attitudes in this situation could essentially be a lost cause, they've tried many times to change people's attitudes - programs such as "eat less move more" in the US failed to have any impact at all.

    Does it not perhaps make you a little uncomfortable, to propose making attempts to change people's attitudes, whilst scientific programs backed by $Billions are undertaken by companies such as Kraft, Nestle or Unilever. These programs are used to engineer foods on purpose to hit the maximum levels of pleasure or "bliss point" in children, essentially trying to condition them into believing - this is what food tastes like.

    The amount of scientific process, testing, design that goes into a product like Pringles, is utterly mind blowing. Everything from the packaging, to how it smells in the tin, to how crunchy it is - leading into how it breaks down inside your mouth "mouth-feel" the consistency of the "blob" how it reacts with saliva and how easily it slides down your throat, have been designed and tested thousands of times at every stage - in order for the whole thing to be as hyper-palatable and as pleasurable as possible.

    It almost feels ridiculous, to have a situation like this - then expect any other outcome other than high levels of obesity, metabolic disease, depletion of health service money and ultimately a lowering of life expectancy (as is happening in the US) it seems - crazy to think anything other than the above things would happen.

    Whilst I agree - people can change their attitudes, and there are a minority of people out there who can resist the temptation, overall I'm not convinced that willpower, attitudes, leaflets, education, classes even exercise and activity - can win against this mountainous tsunami of terrible, borderline-toxic food, for large populations or groups of people.
     
  6. krooton

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 25,006

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    I always assumed it was genetic for me, but I think there are less obvious lifestyle aspects that we can miss.

    Yes, I can polish off a 12-pack multipack of crisps without even blinking, but I don't drink any sugary drinks (90% of time water, 10% tea/coffee), I hardly ever drink beer, I walk up and down all tube escalators (8 every work day), I walk downstairs to go to the loo at work (as the men on my floor leave this toilet in a bloody state), and I fidgit massively (finger tapping to music, foot tapping under the desk constantly).

    All these little things I do and don't do all add up, even if not a large-scale gesture like going to the gym.
     
  7. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    When it comes down to these discussions, someone usually tells people that they simply can't lose weight no matter how little they eat, claiming they went on weeks/months consuming bellow what is needed to keep what is essentially a comatose person at the same weight. People cheat themselves by not counting some things or miss counting others.

    With some alcoholic beverages at 200Kcal each, it isn't surprising that your evening after work beer or the Friday night couple adds up quickly. Some people enjoy their fizzy drinks too much, some crisps, some drink a lot of tea with each cup containing two sugars. If you are really militant about counting, you soon get put off by the idea of drinking 800 Kcal worth of beer or coke as a regular treat.

    Losing weight takes a bit of time but with a lifestyle change it will happen and it doesn't need to be an impossible task. The great thing is that you gain wait at a similar pace, so unless you really went off the rails regularly, it isn't like you put it all on quickly either. Most people who gain their weight back after dieting do so because their diet was a dramatic temporary change that never had any hope in lasting.
     
  8. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,880

    You can lose weight extremely quickly by just not eating for about 2 weeks. Only take vitamins\supplements and drink water :p

    Humans can go a month or more without food, especially massive ones. So you probably won't die.
     
  9. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,504

    Location: London

    Longer...
     
  10. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,137

    Location: Lincs

    Doesn't sound the best slogan to sell it to the populous..

    "Try this amazing diet, you probably won't die!"

    :p
     
  11. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,161

    Location: Farnham, Surrey

    Professor Laura Schmidt from UCSF gives an interesting talk on junk food, the environment and personal responsibility.

    I like her point near the end, about how we shouldn't have to live in an environment that's rigged to make us fat, which then blames us for the consequences and the medical bills.

     
  12. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,990

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    Possibly if I was a younger single male now, I would not have learned to cook so well for myself. All the supermarkets have shelves of ready meals whereas we had boil in the bag Vesta curry and chow mein or similar. Every town centre has eateries on each corner it seems. Your takeaway is but a phone call away now where then we had to weigh up going out for it against a 20 minute 'spag bol' or a 10 minute 'special fried rice' prepared at home.

    However luckily I am also predisposed to be thin, 10st and 5' 10".
     
  13. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,137

    Location: Lincs

    It's not just single males, at the checkout yesterday I saw a single females shopping (ready meals for one in the trolley) and there was pre-made mash potato ffs! Who the hell needs to buy pre-made mash potato :rolleyes:
     
  14. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,990

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    For mash get Smash :D, yes I see your point.
     
  15. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    The cultural attitude is to blame too as mentioned earlier in the thread (i think?)

    Fast pace, work all day lifestyle seems to sometimes justify bad fast food for some. A lack of appreciation for a properly cooked meal, with convenience being valued above all else.

    Look at Italy for example, among lowest obesity in Europe. Fast food and ready meals are unfashionable and properly cooked lunch and dinner seems to be the norm - even if you work. This is slowly changing with the younger generation though.
     
  16. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 16,118

    Location: Cardiff

    Totally cultural.
    It is easier to get ready meals.

    I hate cooking, it always takes so long. So always end up having cooked but pre made food.
    By that I mean pasta/rice plus something like a quorn chicken pieces.plus some veg.

    Almost everything starts frozen. Almost never fresh as it just doesn't last.

    The time/effort to make real meals just doesn't appeal enough for me or my gf to Do It
    Thats my reason. Id rather spend time doing other things.
    Plus you get all the cleaning up
     
  17. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,990

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    The time and effort and cleaning up to make one or two servings can be used to make four or six.

    That is what freezers are for, home cooked meals ready for any occasion, if you do not feel like cooking every day, start to defrost a meal before going out to work. I have a dozen second use ready meal containers ready to recycle into freezer portions for eating later in the week.
     
  18. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,622

    Location: Surrey

    I find that people who CBA to cook make such a faff and fuss over washing up. Just wipe and wash as you go along, takes literately seconds to wash and rinse a saucepan or chopping board. Do it while things are cooking and you end up with most of the mess sorted before you even have your first taste of the meal.
     
  19. Hotwired

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 17, 2009

    Posts: 6,922

    Pretty much. I hate fussing for meals for just 1 because the amount of mess and cleaning and monitoring of cooking doesn't scale with portions.

    Unless you are individually cooking each portion. In which case yes, it totally can scale with portions.

    But anything that doesn't suffer with scaling... Cook a much larger bit and save multiple further prep and cooking sessions.
     
  20. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,137

    Location: Lincs

    To be fair to @413x what he has described as his "ready meals" (pasta/rice, meat substitue and frozen veg) aren't exactly what we are talking about and it can be argued frozen veg has more nutrients than "fresh" anyway but you are just being a bit lazy saying you cba with proper cooking as it's too much time/effort, it really isn't :p

    But yea, I totally agree with the scaling up and freezing the excess, it's what I do