Campaigners have called for the government to scrap the two-child limit on benefits

chaparral said:
The benefits that are given out are so unfair

I have a family member that has 4 kids and has never worked more then a few months in her life and they get given a 3 bedroom house with large gardens and everything paid for and never needs to worry if they lose there job :rolleyes:

While people like me work 50+ hours per week to afford to rent a tiny single bedroom flat..:(
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Then stop working and go do it?
 
2013 said:
This one is kind of black and white.
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It's not really though, is it? Obviously those who agree are generally thinking of the Vicki Pollard types, whereas you also have people who lose jobs, lose abilities, lose loved ones, etc. If I spent my entire life feeding the system and for some reason had to stop working but then wanted another child I'd also expect the system to help out. People seem to forget that good, hard working people also suffer hardships in life which could have devastating outcomes. Why should they be denied the ability to have kids because they're not currently earning money?

It's a tough one really, but like I said, it's really not as simple as some make it out to be.
 
If £14 a week is all that is between the child and poverty then the parent is in no obvious position to have a third child.

I'd never want to see a child go hungry, poorly clothed or without a roof over their head and I'm happy to have my taxes pay to prevent this. But current benefits culture has allowed the lazy to have a work free life and women to choose to have kids with any number of feckless morons who run off at the first sign of a baby.

My wife has a friend who ran a successful beauty business by herself who then shacked up with a guy with 3 kids with 3 women by age 27, none of which he supported. Baby number 4 is here, he's now nowhere to be seen and she can't work due to caring for the baby full time and in real financial difficulties. Who could have predicted that one.
 
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Diddums said:
If I spent my entire life feeding the system and for some reason had to stop working but then wanted another child I'd also expect the system to help out.
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If you had to stop working why would you make a conscious decision to have a child if you then relied on benefits to support it?

The state is there to make sure no one starves, goes uneducated or goes homeless. Not to finance poor life choices.
 
Thecaferacer said:
If you had to stop working why would you make a conscious decision to have a child if you then relied on benefits to support it?

The state is there to make sure no one starves, goes uneducated or goes homeless. Not to finance poor life choices.
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Poor life choices? Like being in a car crash and ending up in a wheelchair? I think you mistake my hypothetical inability to work as one that's reached out of choice, rather than one that's reached due to unavoidable circumstances or events.

Prime example being a mate of mine. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and given a year to live. Absolutely devastating news I'm sure you'll agree. These are both successful people who have worked their entire lives but obviously she quit her job when she discovered this, as did he, to give her the most he could with her remaining time. They decided to try for a child, which to you and me is probably not the best idea but it was their whole reason for life, to raise a happy family, and if it was her dying wish and he was happy to raise the kid alone / with another woman then who are we to judge, and why should this woman be denied her one dream in life?

I'm sure many will say "tough" and all that, but these people are, for lack of a better term, morons. If a few quid a week from my salary goes towards helping others achieve their life goals despite the awful, horrible things this world can throw at them then go nuts, in fact double my contribution, I earn more than enough to be happy. Why shouldn't my fellow person?

It's when you get the chavvy council trash who have zero intention of ever contributing towards the system who want to have 27 kids from 14 different fathers who are raised on McFlurries and KFC that the line gets drawn for me, which is where the shades of grey come in. There's no real way to determine who's "worth it" and who's not without resorting to rather blatant discrimination, although in an ideal world this would be perfect as far as I'm concerned.
 
I support full benefits to people with disabilities to help them live a normal life and the example involving someone with a year to live is so rare and nuanced that there's no one out there who would disagree with it.

We both know poor life choices would be to lose your job with 2 children already and choose to have a third child with no means to support it or to deliberately have a child with an obvious bottom feeder.

People can have children whenever and with however they like, but they shouldn't expect the tax payer to pick up the bill. Considering we already live in a country that will house, educate and medically treat every child regardless of income, I don't think it's unfair to expect a parent to shoulder some cost
 
2013 said:
Campaigners have called for the government to scrap the two-child limit on benefits.

Full story here https://www.theguardian.com/society...ed-to-scrap-nasty-two-child-limit-on-benefits


Do you agree or disagree
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Disagree! It is a (very nice) perk that the government helps support people to have children at all... (One that I support totally) but if you can't afford to look after your kids then imo it is irresponsible to have buckets of them.
Obviously there are edge cases *but in general*I think child support for 2 is plenty generous.
BTW segue but sort of related. 1 thing I think is unfair is the postcode lottery of exactly what help you do get.
For instance where I live we were not allowed NHS sponsored IVF for our lad. Fortunately we had some savings and family who helped and it worked 2nd time. Damn expensive tho!.

As it happens I am ok with NHS NOT funding IVF, it is in such a mess that other things probably should take priority... But (at the time at least) had I of lived elsewhere in uk we would have been able to get it. That is not fair imo
 
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No surprise, workshy want more handouts. I stopped at two children, which I could afford and give them a good lifestyle.
 
Diddums said:
It's not really though, is it? Obviously those who agree are generally thinking of the Vicki Pollard types, whereas you also have people who lose jobs, lose abilities, lose loved ones, etc. If I spent my entire life feeding the system and for some reason had to stop working but then wanted another child I'd also expect the system to help out. People seem to forget that good, hard working people also suffer hardships in life which could have devastating outcomes. Why should they be denied the ability to have kids because they're not currently earning money?

It's a tough one really, but like I said, it's really not as simple as some make it out to be.
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They arent denied the opportunity to have kids, but 2 at the expense of the state is enough.
 
The simple answer is no,

The 2 child limit was called for many years as huge chav families took the mickey and just laughed at us. When it was finally imposed i thought it was one of the rare times that common sense prevailed at government level. But then they'll always be lefty idiots who want to throw money at "The Poor" and trap them into the poverty trap, happens every time Labour gets into power.
 
BowdonUK said:
I thought we had a low population crisis in this country in that we don't have enough people to replace us?

I just looked it up, its 1.75. I think it needs to be 2.0 to maintain the levels and over 2 to increase population by birth rate.

Surely a country that is essentially dying by a lack of children shouldn't be discouraging people having more kids?

The only reason I think some might see it as a drain on the system is if those kids, that generally come from the lower classes, dont then go on to earn at least an average salary. But thats a different subject that can be worked on.
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No we can just import them, there is already enough people in the world, there no need to selfishly go around making more.
 
We shouldn't pay for anyones kids. I'd scrap all child benefit but, as we know some people make a living from pumping out kids, it'll never happen and we'll keep pumping money into this bottomless pit.
 
Yea, it should be reduced to 1.

Or maybe give benefits to people for NOT having kids (reward for not adding to the problem) :)
 
ianh said:
We shouldn't pay for anyones kids. I'd scrap all child benefit but, as we know some people make a living from pumping out kids, it'll never happen and we'll keep pumping money into this bottomless pit.
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I have no idea if it would work, but just as a thought aside, perhaps the government could go the otherway....................... ie 1st child have a much larger child benefit - 2nd child far less and then none for 3rd onwards.

There is an argument that it is a civilised thing to do to help everyone (who is able) to have a child and to nurture that child as much as possible to give it every head start possible in life. A low income family then can easily afford a child and it have a half decent shout of having a comfortable life but at the same time there is no encouragement to pump out what is (imo) an irresponsible number of children

It is kind of sad that some people put off having children because they feel they cant afford, but at the same time I personally dont want to be funding a family to have half a dozen kids either.

i dunno, just a thought am sure it will get shot down.
 
wnb said:
No surprise, workshy want more handouts. I stopped at two children, which I could afford and give them a good lifestyle.
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I have two children. I am also in a job and my wife is a nurse...lets say something horrible happens to one of us and we have to quit work.

Are you saying I or my wife shouldnt get benefits?

Why is it people lump it all in one bracket....as if everyone out of work is "workshy".
 
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