Can anyone clarify the law with trespassing & dogs?

Bes · 12 Jul 2007 at 21:56

Hi

My mum's house shares a wall with a large park. Unfortunately it sometimes attracts a certain group of little ****s who have nothing better to do than shout and swear in the park, and sometimes 'for a laugh' jump over the wall into her garden.

She also owns a very protective Alsatian who has come extremely close to catching the little scrotes a few times. If they continue doing this, I know it is just a matter of time before he catches one, and I have no idea what he would do to them.

She has warned them, but of course they don't give a toss.

Does anyone know what would actually happen to the dog/ my mum if he did get hold of one in his own garden? We have asked the police before and one officer said nothing would happen to the dog (i.e. be put down) as he attacked a trespasser. I don't know if I believe this though.

Can anyone in the know confirm this? as I am not too sure if this is the case?

Thanks

furnace · 12 Jul 2007 at 21:59

TBH

Bes · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:00

furnace said:
TBH

We would if they were legal. Thing is if one of the little gits impails himself on it, he would almost certainly win a legal case against us.

Jokester · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:01

Bes said:
Thing is if one of the little gits impails himself on it, he would almost certainly win a legal case against us.

Which would probably also be the case if your dog mauled him.

Jokester

Bes · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:03

Jokester said:
Which would probably also be the case if your dog mauled him.

Jokester

Which is what I am unsure of as the police officer said he has no legal leg to stand on and the dog could not be destroyed, yet we cannot erect anything like that in her garden :confused:

Edit: Also those things are probably illegal to possess- Alsatians are not.

Fraggr · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:05

Anti climb paint ***. Or just soak it with bleach or something so they burn themselves when they climb it. It won't do much, so people don't need to whine about it.

furnace · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:05

Shame isn't it. I don't understand why the defence "The idiot shouldn't have climbed my wall" doesn't cover us :rolleyes:

I mean, they're in clear view, so it's freakin' obvious what's going to happen if you try and climb it and only they are to blame...

These are legal as far as I know, they're made out of hard plastic I think. You just need to put a sign up on the other side of the wall then I think you're covered :confused:

Bes · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:08

furnace said:
Shame isn't it. I don't understand why the defence "The idiot shouldn't have climbed my wall" doesn't cover us I mean, they're in clear view, so it's freakin' obvious what's going to happen if you try and climb it and only they are to blame...

These are legal as far as I know, they're made out of hard plastic I think. You just need to put a sign up on the other side of the wall then I think you're covered

The other thing is though sometimes the dog jumps up at the wall just to have a look around, or if he hears something in the park or whatever... We don't want anything that can injure him or make him tread anti-climb paint all over the house.

I was thinking of erecting a number of long steel rods just on our side of the wall- the dog will see them so won't hurt himself, but anyone jumping over will probably lose a testicle or an ovary. But it's probably illegal too :rolleyes:

fornowagain · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:08

Can't stop you having a few rose bushes or hawthorn with massive spikes.

http://www.gloucestershire.police.uk/news/821.html

Fraggr · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:10

fornowagain said:
Can't stop you having a few rose bushes or hawthorn with massive spikes.

http://www.gloucestershire.police.uk/news/821.html

Or a rake/knife collection.

Bes · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:10

fornowagain said:
Can't stop you having a few rose bushes or hawthorn with massive spikes.

Yeah but her front garden is probably over 50 metres long (That a LOT of bushes, and they aint cheap!) and they also take more years to grow than she will stay there.

I will look into it for her though- find out what the nastiest variety is. Just a shame there are no poisonous plants indigenous here

fornowagain · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:19

Bes said:
Yeah but her front garden is probably over 50 metres long (That a LOT of bushes, and they aint cheap!) and they also take more years to grow than she will stay there.

I will look into it for her though- find out what the nastiest variety is. Just a shame there are no poisonous plants indigenous here

My dad had to plant a back fence, must have been 200ft. He did a deal with the local garden wholesaler, he's dead so I can't ask him, but iirc it was around a grand all in for hawthorn. One of the plants he considered was bamboo grows at a phenomenal rate, trouble is you have to keep it down. Personally I'd want something that would rip them to shreds.

http://www.securityadvisor.co.uk/planting.html

Masterdog · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:22

On the dog thing - I'm 95% certain that if a dog attacks someone who isn't meant to be on its owners property then you're safe. If a postman came down the path you wouldn't be, as they have an implied right to be there, but anyone who is trespassing is fair game. I used to classify crimes for the police and I'm sure that's what the rules were when it came to this kind of thing. No idea on the legality of huge spikes though.

Defcon5 · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:27

Masterdog said:
On the dog thing - I'm 95% certain that if a dog attacks someone whilst on its owners property then you're safe. If a postman came down the path you wouldn't be, as they have an implied right to be there, but anyone who is trespassing is fair game. I used to classify crimes for the police and I'm sure that's what the rules were when it came to this kind of thing. No idea on the legality of huge spikes though.

With the spikes, IIRC as long as they are not overhanging or pointing out of your property you can have whatever you like.

As for the dog, as long as you have made reasonable efforts to keep people out and warned them of the dog you should be fine (although im no expert)

Ak!ta · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:28

I had someone try to break into my house a while back, and the dogs got hold of him. He needed Hospital treatment, and was later charged by the Police.
I was told that as long as you have warning signs to the effect that you have a dog and you enter at your own risk. The property is properly secured with a secure boundry that the dog can't get out of or people get in (by normal means), then you are covered.
The police were laughing when they had to call an ambulance for the guy that tried to break into my house. They said it was properly secured and warning signs were in place so it's his own fault.
The guy tried to claim damages from me through the Courts, but they threw the case out !!!
The only difference is if your dog is classed as a guard dog ?

SilverTongue · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:32

just double checked ith sum1 else, and apparently a tresspasser has a right to be safe within your house, lol, sounds a bit wierd but would make sense, i heard of sum1 once who attacked a burglar in their house and broke the nose of sed burglar, the owner of the house was then chraged with assault and the burglar got away with it....

Azagoth · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:33

Put up a few signs saying "Guard dog on patrol. Trespass at own risk." That should cover you!

Although my mate's Dobermann has the right idea. That crafty sod actually sat there quietly in the dark and watched a guy break in through a window. Lets just say, he got in ok but he didn't get out until the police turned up.

RDM · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:35

Bes said:
Yeah but her front garden is probably over 50 metres long (That a LOT of bushes, and they aint cheap!) and they also take more years to grow than she will stay there.

I will look into it for her though- find out what the nastiest variety is. Just a shame there are no poisonous plants indigenous here

Nettles? They grow damn fast I can let you have dozens of the damn things as even industrial weedkiller isnt stopping them....

Masterdog · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:36

just double checked ith sum1 else, and apparently a tresspasser has a right to be safe within your house, lol, sounds a bit wierd but would make sense, i heard of sum1 once who attacked a burglar in their house and broke the nose of sed burglar, the owner of the house was then chraged with assault and the burglar got away with it....

You have the right to take reasonable force against anyone trepassing in your house...a dog attacking them would certainly fall under this, as you can't really expect most dogs (especially Alsatians) not to do that. Things change a bit when you have a dog classified as dangerous in the house, but you shouldn't have one of them in there anyway.

Meridian · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:56

First of all, AFAIK Trespass is not an offense in England and Wales (the situation in Scotland is different), unless another offense is committed at the same time. Thus if a dog attacked a person that climbed the wall but committed no actual criminal act, then it highly likely that the dog would be put down as dangerous and the owner prosecuted. There has been at least one case where a kid climbed a wall and was attacked by the guard dog and this was the result.

Look at it this way: a six-year old kid, who wouldn't know it was wrong, climbs the wall and is killed by the dog. Still seem like reasonable defence system?

However...

Someone once told me that a good trick is carpet securing strip, with the spikes pointing down, on the inside of the fence just below the top. About where a person climbing the fence would put their fingers. Think about it...

M