Can I legally put a metal garage here in my back garden - grumpy neighbour....

[Gibbo]

Hi there


So yesterday was quite eventful, a couple of men came along to take down and remove the shed which all went well, here is an image of before the shed was taken away:






So shed is gone and I am stood in the back garden talking to my brother when the neighbour from the plot below shouts my name:






My house is and you can see right at the back of the garden is my double garage. The neighbour in question is house 39 his garden not only runs up to the side of ours but also has a narrow passage around the back, he has two sheds both of which are right up against the fence and is something I am not bothered by at all.

So now moving onto the issue, he is complaining his shed that was directly behind the shed taken down is rotten because water ran from the roof of the shed in our garden onto his as our plot is quite a bit higher than his. To which I responded well it is now gone and you cannot blame me for a shed which was there when we moved in and was something you should have mentioned to previous owner. He then starts well I guess your gonna put a car port or garage there and you cannot do that, it must be 5m away to which I responded with so I assume you will be moving your sheds then too, at this point he seemed to calm down for a few seconds, then complained about a building would block the light and if we put something there he will sue me, my brother was starting to get agitated and annoyed, bit of a lad in his day but the neighbour then retreated back indoors.

I've spoken to this neighbour previous and he and his wife have been friendly and never mention issue with the old shed and just were saying hello.


So I gave it an hour and I then walked around to his house and knocked on his door and ask him to explain to me calmly essentially what his issue was because to put it bluntly to start threatening to sue someone and having a rant is not how you approach someone or start a conversation and I would happily work with him on making sure anything we do build won't cause him any water damage. He seemed calmer and did say sorry and said he suffers a lot of pain and was having a bad moment, but he did keep also trying to see if you put something big there I will be onto my solicitor to have it taken down, I explained as its within 2M of the fence I can build an outbuilding with a height upto 2-2.5m right upto the fence and as long as nothing over hangs I believe I am legal, he would not have it and just kept saying it would be taken down, so I ask him to explain what his worry was and he tells me his shed is 54 years old and he had to repair it from inside due to water damage from our old shed and I said any garage I erect will have proper guttering to the front of our garage to drain to the front of our house.

He seemed at peace and we agreed on putting in new higher fence panels also, I offered to cover the cost and he was fine with that, though I shall do mine first let him see them and if he is still happy I shall then do his three panels also so they all match, he was not bothered by what colour they might be.


Here are pictures of how that corner in the garden looks now minus the old shed:











I have also emailed my solicitor as well to just get an official legal response.

To be honest I think I handled it well by not rising to the occaison and calling round to hear what his worries were, I also had a good conversation with his wife who did apologise about him and she did say they had no issues with us or the previous occupants and the last thing they ever wish is to fall out with us as they are an elderley couple, both retired.

But I am still a little annoyed inside as I don't appreciate some guy trying to lay down the law to speak by threatening he will sue and trying to suggest I must be at least 2m away and ideally 5m, bit of a hipocrit considering he has two sheds up against our fence.

You will see in the picture that the original border/bouncdary seems to be the brick wall that runs down between the fences two fences.

My plan is to put something like this in that area:
https://www.dancovershop.com/uk/product/metal-garage-338x576x243-m-proshed-anthracite.aspx



Now I believe from reading up about regulations that an outbuilding built from none flammable material can be placed right upto a fence on the basis it does not overhang, is under 2.5m in height and is smaller than 30m²,


But I wish to ask the knowledge of the OcUK forum can I put said garage in that location of those dimensions and should this neighbour decided he dislikes it can he legally force me to have it taken down?

I've been cleaning up out back there all day and not heard a beep out of them.

 

[bJN]

I'm not completely au fait with building regs but what you've proposed sounds perfectly fine as permitted development in my mind.

Good approach to going back to them and staying calm though, always helps with neighbours to not create enemies nearby! Though I probably would have quipped that if his shed was over 50 years old maybe that's part of the reason why it's damaged; don't entirely see what he was trying to gain by bringing it up unless he's seeing you splash money and thought he might get a shiny new shed out of you?

Hard to judge by the angle of the photo but looks like his shed might even be straddling the dividing wall, that could cause some issues for him depending on who has adopted what wall.

 

[fezster]

Provided your permitted development rights haven't been withdrawn and it is not a conservation area, you are correct.

Point 8:
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdf

 

[Gibbo]

I'm not completely au fait with building regs but what you've proposed sounds perfectly fine as permitted development in my mind.

Good approach to going back to them and staying calm though, always helps with neighbours to not create enemies nearby! Though I probably would have quipped that if his shed was over 50 years old maybe that's part of the reason why it's damaged; don't entirely see what he was trying to gain by bringing it up unless he's seeing you splash money and thought he might get a shiny new shed out of you?

Hard to judge by the angle of the photo but looks like his shed might even be straddling the dividing wall, that could cause some issues for him depending on who has adopted what wall.

Yes I did think his shed might actually be on the boundary wall but I’m absolutely fine by that because ok he might a stolen an inch of my land in the far corner but that does not bother me and I’m not petty but unfortunately he seems to be petty and seems to think he can lay the law down.

I believe I am fine to put W building there and I’ll make sure it does not over hang the fence and I’ll also put up all new fencing as what is there now is all rotten and I will also make sure appropriate guttering is fitted.

When I do the fence panels and ask them if they want theirs doing the same I shall then explain my plans and how I will make sure nothing will over hang and guttering will be installed.

If he then creates a fuss saying it will block light (it won’t) as trees other side our garden are like 6-8M tall so they do block light and my plan is to also have the new garage be no higher than the current double garage and maybe a bit shorter.

So I’d he still makes a fuss I’ll give him a copy of the regulations and suggest he speak to his solicitor if he don’t want to accept it from myself.

 

[Rroff]

Yes I did think his shed might actually be on the boundary wall but I’m absolutely fine by that because ok he might a stolen an inch of my land in the far corner but that does not bother me and I’m not petty but unfortunately he seems to be petty and seems to think he can lay the law down.

Maybe he was trying to get out ahead of you to try and avoid you noticing the boundary discrepancy.

 

[Gibbo]

Maybe he was trying to get out ahead of you to try and avoid you noticing the boundary discrepancy.

Don’t think so he seems a nice guy but seems to be a grumpy old know it all and seems genuinely worried about water damage which I assured anything I build won’t over hang and correct guttering will be installed to ensure any water drains into our garden and not his which seem to put him at ease but I took a dislike to his comments of it blocking light or looking ugly and he’s have me sued and pull it down.

Just not how you talk to people and it’s like he can have two sheds upto a fence but others cannot lol.

I just want to be 110% sure my plans are legal and hence me posting here as I’m still awaiting a response from solicitor and the local council site seems to suggest it would all be fine!

I just like to research and check in 100% correct and then if another confrontation happens I can tell him fine sue me.

 

[ChrisD.]

He sounds like a jealous douchebag if I'm honest.

 

[koooowweeee]

Of you put bigger panels in het some post extensions. They will sell they at any decent fencing suppliers.

 

[Gibbo]

Of you put bigger panels in het some post extensions. They will sell they at any decent fencing suppliers.

Thanks fencing guy coming next week so I’ll ask about post extensions so can fit maximum legal height fence panels which I assume is around 1.8m ?

 

[koooowweeee]

Thanks fencing guy coming next week so I’ll ask about post extensions so can fit maximum legal height fence panels which I assume is around 1.8m ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1ft-Oran...P8ZCVjS0N7gj0Ncpy9XKhIH57PmiMILQaAhfGEALw_wcB

Them.

I thought it was 2m max. Only what someone has said to me. Not seen it on any gov site or anything

edit: yeah it's 2m or 6"6. They look like 3 foot, with a foot base.

 

[Scrutinize]

You could always buy him a new shed.

 

[Gibbo]

You could always buy him a new shed.

I actually said to him if I had known you could have had ours, but also why should I buy him a new shed, what have I done wrong?

 

[Rotty]

He sounds like a jealous douchebag if I'm honest.

I think that may have a lot to do with it

 

[Usel]

Is the double garage original when the house was built or is it an addition?

I don't think you can build multiples of 30m2 buildings without planning permission so you have to add up the floor space of the garage, subtract that from 30m2 and then build with whats left.

The 30m2 is the internal area not external so measure the garage internal area.

 

[Em3bbs]

He sounds like a jealous douchebag if I'm honest.

I think you might have something here, the plots all look pretty small (they've been split into two smaller plots at some point?) for so many loud/expensive cars so I wonder if there is an element of that going on.

 

[Gibbo]

Is the double garage original when the house was built or is it an addition?

I don't think you can build multiples of 30m2 buildings without planning permission so you have to add up the floor space of the garage, subtract that from 30m2 and then build with whats left.

The 30m2 is the internal area not external so measure the garage internal area.

I thought it was upto 50% of the rear garden space could be used for outbuildings and I’d be well under that.

 

[Usel]

I thought it was upto 50% of the rear garden space could be used for outbuildings and I’d be well under that.

You might be right.
I have quickly looked at South-Norfolk planning portal and it states this;

the floor area of the garage is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, provided the garage is at least one metre from any boundary, or it is constructed substantially of non-combustible materials.

Does your local authority state the 1 metre rule?

I'd phone your local planners. They are quite helpful.

 

[fezster]

I thought it was upto 50% of the rear garden space could be used for outbuildings and I’d be well under that.

Yes. Not sure if the outbuilding has to be a certain distance from the main house - couldn't find any reference to this on planning portal:

Edit - no such rule. As long as its not forward of the principle elevation (ie. Has to be in a back garden).

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings#:~:text=Outbuildings are considered to be,wall forming the principal elevation.

• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.

 

[Gibbo]

You might be right.
I have quickly looked at South-Norfolk planning portal and it states this;

the floor area of the garage is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, provided the garage is at least one metre from any boundary, or it is constructed substantially of non-combustible materials.

Does your local authority state the 1 metre rule?

I'd phone your local planners. They are quite helpful.

They state 1m unless it’s built of none combustible materials hence why I’m dropping a metal garage there as one built from timber that close to a border is in breach of those guidelines.

From what I can gather from reading the Staffordshire moorlands council site is the guidelines are:

- Upto 50% of rear garden can be used for outbuildings.
- Outbuildings should be smaller than 30m2 if within 1-2m of a border
- Outbuildings if built from a none combustible material and less than 2.5m in height can be built right upto a border but must not touch or over hang.
- Must not be used for living accommodation or commercial uses
- Must be at the side or rear of property but not in front off


I think I am 100% covered and there is zero the neighbour can do if they try to object or complain I will of course try to work with them but if they just want to try and demand I can’t build on my own land when I legally can then I will just go ahead and totally blank that corner out so they can’t see in.

I’ll be reasonable to a point but just take a dislike to people who for whatever reason think they make the rules and can do as they wish but others have to do as they say.

 

[Gibbo]

Yes. Not sure if the outbuilding has to be a certain distance from the main house - couldn't find any reference to this on planning portal:

Edit - no such rule. As long as its not forward of the principle elevation (ie. Has to be in a back garden).

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings#:~:text=Outbuildings are considered to be,wall forming the principal elevation.

• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.

Yes the double garage is at far rear of property and this would be a single garage going up next to that and distance wise from our property I’d say is probably 15-20m to the rear and I’d say with this garage our total use of our surrounding land would be most likely under 15% and most definetely less than 20%

When I do the fence panels I will discuss with neighbours I’d they want their 3 panels doing of same style and I’ll pay and it’s at this time I’ll also make them aware of my plans and how it won’t over hang and will have proper guttering if they still wish to make comments at this point and threaten to sue and have it taken down then I will just pass them documents from council, building regs and my solicitor asking to point out what law I’ve broken and we won’t speak to them again and like I say we won’t be missing much as we can’t see their house or garden anyway apart from their two sheds which with new fence panels and a garage there will be out of view and blocked off.