Can I legally put a metal garage here in my back garden - grumpy neighbour....

[Gredawarha]

For the benefit of everyone else but equally to protect Gibbo's personal details. Gibbo's property is not in Scotland but lies within England and therefore my advice posted at post 60, which lists the relevant permission granted by The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended). Gibbo will need to ensure that his PD rights have not been removed by a condition imposed by a previous planning permission, he will need to ensure that there is no Article 4 removing the relevant permission and he will to find out whether his property lies within a Conservation Area an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, The Broads, a National Park or a World Heritage Site as I don't have access to that information and it will be his LPA who can supply that information.

If you want certainty, you can also consider employing a private planner to assist you but will obviously cost you and in addition if you want your LPA to confirm that the building you wish to erect benefits from permission by virtue of Class E, Part 1, Schedule 2 of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 you can apply for a lawfull development certificate which is an application to the Council to have your proposed building assessed against the lagislation, if it complies your LPA will issue the certificate and you have peace of mind that your proposal is lawful but again it costs money.

Hope this helps.

@Gibbo you will need to read my private message with this post to get the full explanation, sorry I am trying to rush this during my lunch break so excuse any spelling and or grammar issues.

 

[koooowweeee]

For God sake gibbo, just give the man access to the secret forum so he can stop quoting everybody

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Bumping this thread as today the garage build started and grumpy neighbour is back.
Back in March I did check with my council planning department who put in writing the following:

"
Dear Mr A J Gibson


Householder Planning Enquiry – Ref No: ********** - Mr A J Gibson - Adding another garage (single) to our back garden alongside the double garage that is already there. This would still be under 50% use of our surrounding land/garden at Oak Lodge

Thank you for your recent request regarding the need for planning permission for the above proposed development.

Further to the information supplied to us for the proposed development we can confirm that under the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015, planning permission is not required under Class E, Part 1, Schedule 2.

Please note this letter constitutes the informal view of the Council and is based on the information you have supplied. This enquiry does not constitute an application for a Lawful Development Certificate for a proposed development under section 191 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

In addition to the above you may require building regulations for your proposed development therefore you should contact the Councils Building Control Section to check at [email protected] or alternatively more information can be found on the Councils website."


So the council were happy, the neighbour also seemed happy, but of course this was back in March as the build got severely delayed whilst waiting on the aluminium to be delivered due to shortages and as such this was delivered this week. So my builder erected the wooden frame "less than 2m tall"








Cue neighbour appearing and saying how unreasonable I am and that it would have been nice to have discussed it with them (which I did do).
He and she is then saying it needs to be 5ft away from the fence (boundary) and less than 1.5m tall. To which I said that is not true, the regulations by Staffordshire Moorlands / HighPeak council state you can build within 1m of a boundary if constructed out of materials meeting fire requirements and it is less than 2m tall which it is. At this point they stormed off saying they are ringing council and it will be ripped down.

So again I waited five minutes and walked around like last time for a chat, this time he refused to answer the door and his wife answered, stating he is calling council and does not want to talk and I responded so when council responds saying it is all OK you won't be any better off and I am here now asking how you would like me to change it, do you want it lower etc. The conversation then went we hear you leave every day at 7-8am and come home 7pm every night, we can't hear our TV to which I responded really, because first I've not been in the office the last few days and second I've been using the Yaris which can't scare a mouse, so at this point I am just thinking jealousy as she noted how I have so many sport cars zzzzzzz. The builders also said this seems a case of jealousy and they won't be happy unless you don't build it, so just build it as its legal as far as they believe and I have been more than reasonable. The builders know a building project planner who knows the law and have requested he comes onsite to check it and approve it as then it has had both planning permission requested which was not required and with a buildings approval it is all legal and fine.

I was going to lower it 150mm at the end, to give a bigger slope on the roof meaning I would be ducking quite a bit to get in on that side, but now I am inclined to agree with the builder and they won't be happy still as its a case of them just trying to be awkward. Probably be getting a fake noise complaint next.......

Any thoughts does it all look fine, it is within all guidelines as far as we can tell.


P.S. The rear fence panel got broke in the storm, not sure if mine or their's was gonna get it sorted but now really cannot be bothered, will just throw the garage up and its then out of view.

 

[Gredawarha]

@Gibbo

I'll draft you a proper response later this evening. But in short if you follow my previous advice and ensure the building complies with Class E the building is lawful (in respect of planning) and that is the bottom line.

If an officer from the Local Planning Authority ask to come view it then you need to let them.

If your neighbour wants to employee an independent planning advisor they have no legal right to enter you land, unlike an officer from the LPA.

Like you say this seems to be jealousy or some other petty reason to cause trouble.

Like I say I'll draft something a bit more comprehensive tonight.

 

[Gibbo]

@Gibbo

I'll draft you a proper response later this evening. But in short if you follow my previous advice and ensure the building complies with Class E the building is lawful (in respect of planning) and that is the bottom line.

If an officer from the Local Planning Authority ask to come view it then you need to let them.

If your neighbour wants to employee an independent planning advisor they have no legal right to enter you land, unlike an officer from the LPA.

Like you say this seems to be jealousy or some other petty reason to cause trouble.

Like I say I'll draft something a bit more comprehensive tonight.

Thank you, I was willing to pull 150mm off so it is basically around 5ft high at the fence side, so not protruding over the fences but they would not be reasonable so I see no reason to try and be helpful now and will just go with how it is, though I personally would like it marginally lower as I want the slope to match the angle of the current garage if possible so think it does need to come down another 10-20mm to get to that.

 

[dlockers]

Looks good to me. Can you get around the back still?

I know the look is important but 10-20mm lower plus all the other bits bolted to the roof could really make a difference to liveability going forwards...

 

[SupraWez]

Neighbours eh, buy their house and turn the whole thing into a garage

 

[Gibbo]

Looks good to me. Can you get around the back still?

I know the look is important but 10-20mm lower plus all the other bits bolted to the roof could really make a difference to liveability going forwards...

It is a squeeze but I can get around the back. Might also put a door on the rear as well so I can get to the back that bit easier than squeezing by.
Is been able to get round the back a legal requirement?
It will also have guttering which will route rain water to the front of my property and the said guttering will be within my boundary and not over hanging their's.

I just like to get along with people and try to be helpful, but unless I obey their rules which they think spreads to my land I guess its time to just give them the finger and leave it be, tried my best and willing to work with them, but for me now as long as I am within the rules then will just go ahead.

 

[Gibbo]

My local planning council officer just replied to an email I sent her earlier, her response:

"
I am sorry to hear that this has happened. I have received no notification that your neighbour has made a call yet but I will keep this in mind in case it happens!


In terms of the height of the garage, as it is within 1 metre of the boundary, it cannot exceed 2.5 metres. Also, it cannot have an eaves height of above 2.5 metres. I have just double checked your application form from the time you submitted the enquiry and can see that the proposed maximum height was 2.4 metres and the eaves height is 2 metres, meaning that your garage is permitted development.


I want to reassure you that what you are doing (based on the details which you submitted) accords with permitted development regulations.


I hope that this helps!"


So as the building is actually under height wise originally proposed she seems to be saying, nothing to worry about.

 

[Uther]

Well there you go, I'd take it to the max 2.5 metres after that.

 

[dlockers]

Well there you go, I'd take it to the max 2.5 metres after that.

Or at least fit an ornament to the roof, maybe an elf with his pants down

 

[dlockers]

My local planning council officer just replied to an email I sent her earlier, her response:

"
I am sorry to hear that this has happened. I have received no notification that your neighbour has made a call yet but I will keep this in mind in case it happens!


In terms of the height of the garage, as it is within 1 metre of the boundary, it cannot exceed 2.5 metres. Also, it cannot have an eaves height of above 2.5 metres. I have just double checked your application form from the time you submitted the enquiry and can see that the proposed maximum height was 2.4 metres and the eaQUOTE]
I was just thinking practically should need access. Would be playing into their hand if each time you needed access you had to pop around theirs

 

[Gibbo]

Or at least fit an ornament to the roof, maybe an elf with his pants down

ROFL!

 

[kindai]

I feel I might need to come visit and demonstrate the flames my exhaust makes for you for 10 minutes or so.

 

[dlockers]

I feel I might need to come visit and demonstrate the flames my exhaust makes for you for 10 minutes or so.

Tbh I love you both and your cars but I imagine you're both a right nightmare to live next door to!

 

[Gibbo]

Tbh I love you both and your cars but I imagine you're both a right nightmare to live next door to!

I am a good neighbour, keep property clean, no screaming kids, no barking dogs, not up to nefarious activities and from time to time I might start a loud car up for a few second whilst I am leaving or returning normally always within social hours, majority of time drive the Yaris which the neighbour complained about, it was at this point I knew she was just complaining about nothing as I know the Yaris is silent. I could park 5 Tesla's on the drive and they would complain about the noise, so it does seem to be a jealousy issue coming through.

The neighbour who is actually my neighbour closest I said to him do the cars bother you and he just said I don't really hear them, it is only the Ferrari he hears and he understands its loud on a cold start and it last about a minute once a day whilst leaving and as such it never bothers him, the tractors going up and down the road make more noise, he just wobbled his head and said jealous jerks lol.

 

[Manbatius]

Well I think you’ve been a very thoughtful neighbour. Your neighbour probably has nothing better to do and just wants an argument with someone or something to complain about.

I would have got bored after the first time you were nice with them and went round. Should have sent your brother after that for all communication. This also makes me feel better about my old neighbours.

Do show us pics when it’s done !

 

[Gibbo]

Well I think you’ve been a very thoughtful neighbour. Your neighbour probably has nothing better to do and just wants an argument with someone or something to complain about.

I would have got bored after the first time you were nice with them and went round. Should have sent your brother after that for all communication. This also makes me feel better about my old neighbours.

Do show us pics when it’s done !

Well she then said her neighbours complained about us too, I was like what, why? They could not give a reason and I just said well its news to me, they always seem nice and say hello, they got an issue, they should come see me to which her response was they "aint got the balls", yet my actual neighbours are very friendly, like I say the moment she said she cannot hear her TV at 7pm when I come home in the Yaris which I also happen to park at the front so nowhere near their house I kind of realised they cannot be reasoned with and just talking BS, at which point I just said well I am trying to listen and be reasonable, but bye.

I shall post pictures up, won't be painted though, with colder weather I will just seal the wooden parts (front) and wait for warmer weather before painting unless get a freak Winter heat wave. At least once its built I won't be able to see his ugly sheds and they will be completely blocked out of vision.

 

[dlockers]

You'd think the new garage would help block any noise they seem to think is such a nuisance too

 

[Throrik]

Time for you to pick up the hobby of outdoor DJing.