'Cap' on immigration is no longer in place

[Patient Keeper]

Then add all those economics and business students that could have done a real degree but decided that they wanted a career in finance as it is so hyped up...

 

[dowie]

Good. The government's policy on immigration in this respect is wrong.

This tbh... Capping skilled immigration doesn't, on the face of it, seem to be too good an idea. We'd prob do better in the long run to have no cap in this area MSc holders, professionals should be welcomed as they add value. Quite frankly anyone with a Science or Engineering PhD ought to get automatic citizenship if they want it.

I'm all for seriously reducing the number of student visas granted to people attending courses below degree level.

If you look around any scummy area in London you'll see the odd "XYZ college" above a chip shop etc... these places are just fronts for non-EU migrants to come over and work under the pretence that they're 'students'. While there is a need to have some migrants take up low skilled, low paid roles we've already got people from EU countries who are happy to move here for that sort of work.

 

[Efour]

Points system, jobs done. Costly to set up and maintain but a vote winner so no brainer.

 

[Crizzy]

We do.

But not a cap on skilled migration. There is no problem with skilled migration.

Bang on the money. We know we can't cap migration from inside the EU so the government have rushed through their promised 'cap' on something they can still control, also it looks good to the general public that something is finally being done. In reality the percentage of skilled migrants compared to unskilled migration from within the EU is so disproportionate that a cap would not actually reduce migration to the UK by a significant margin, in fact it could almost do more harm than good to UK businesses.

It is diversionary to say we have capped non-EU migration as in reality this was already a closely scrutinised process carried out by those who grant visas for people to coming to the UK for work (now points based led). The real issue of uncontrolled migration to the UK is from unskilled EU workers but as we are all now part of one big European family there is nothing whatsoever that the government can do to limit or control it.

 

[dave_beast]

Like I said in another thread, this country is broken, needs RMA'ing.

 

[deuse]

Because I'm talking about SKILLED MIGRATION and a Doctor is an example of a highly skilled profession for which there is a shortage in the UK, which is being filled with foreign migrants as a result.

Fitting gas boilers isnt quite on the same page.

It takes YEARS to turn an unskilled labourer into a skilled worker.

In the 12 years Labour was in power how many doctors do you think there would been now if they started retraining?
We would not need SKILLED MIGRATION if a UK government had the back bone to retrain and think in the long term.
Next you will come back with "but they don't won't to do it"

 

[[TW]Fox]

In the 12 years Labour was in power how many doctors do you think there would been now if they started retraining?

Do you live in a dream world or something? You don't order people to retrain. Anyone can go and train as a doctor if they want But they don't.

We would not need SKILLED MIGRATION if a UK government had the back bone to retrain and think in the long term.
Next you will come back with "but they don't won't to do it"

We need it now. Most countries do. If you were skilled, you could migrate to a number of other countries if you wish as well, as many British people do.

 

[deuse]

Do you live in a dream world or something? You don't order people to retrain. Anyone can go and train as a doctor if they want But they don't.

Never heard of maggie thatcher? she did it. Yep you HAD to do things in her day.

We need it now. Most countries do. If you were skilled, you could migrate to a number of other countries if you wish as well, as many British people do.

As I have said when a UK Gov has the back bone to think in the LONG TERM the UK will be ok.

 

[d_brennen]

Never heard of maggie thatcher? she did it. Yep you HAD to do things in her day.

As I have said when a UK Gov has the back bone to think in the LONG TERM the UK will be ok.

Yeah the Thatcher days were awesome in every way, weren't they?

Without immigration who's going to wash the salt and grit crap off my car on a Sunday morning when it's -2 outside? Or serve me a kebab at half one tonight?

These jobs have always been there but the local unskilled are just to damn lazy. I give my self the right to stand on this high ground as I haven't been out of work ever in my life. Unemployment is a state of mind

 

[Abraham]

In the 12 years Labour was in power how many doctors do you think there would been now if they started retraining?
We would not need SKILLED MIGRATION if a UK government had the back bone to retrain and think in the long term.
Next you will come back with "but they don't won't to do it"

But you can already retrain, there has never been an age cap on education in the UK in fact as far as I can remember it's been actively encouraged for older people to get back into education if it will help them find work.

To train in medicine you need to have good a-levels, even this isn't a problem from your "retrain everyone" perspective, because people without can redo, or take them for the first time. It would currently be possible for someone out of work with 0 qualifications to train as a Dr massively funded by the government. If that isn't what you're asking for then what is? While it may be logical to force people back into work, I definitely don't want anyone forced into being a doctor, a large part of being a good doctor is wanting to be a doctor.
However find yourself another skilled shortage and I think you'll find that the same opportunities for training exist, and will be actively encouraged by job centres.

 

[Orcish-Horde]

.

It takes YEARS to turn an unskilled labourer into a skilled worker.

All the more reason to start now so that in 4 or 5 years time these skilled workers will start looking for employment.

Do you live in a dream world or something? You don't order people to retrain. Anyone can go and train as a doctor if they want But they don't.

If the government placed an internal add in the NHS, other government bodys and private employers, offering trainee doctor places. In the understanding that if they didn't cut it, they could return to their old job. The posts would be filled over night. Its rather funny that people point to the unskilled unemployed and claim they will never cut it as a doctor, but totally disregard the rest of the population. There is only a skill shortage in the UK due to government and employers not having in place training programs to meet THEIR skill needs.

 

[Bes]

Do you really think the British WANT any more people coming into the country?

We have over 2.4 million out of work.
So dont come to me with we need skilled xyz people, as we probably have them or we can train them to suit the job.

It always been business getting staff on the cheap.

I'm British and I WANT more skilled people coming here.

You have no idea of the economics behind this my friend. You don't realise how buggered this country will be in 20 years time unless we have more taxpayers to contribute towards your parent's pensions, and eventually our pensions. The working population in this country will be (if it hasn't already started) decreasing. How do you propose we fund all these OAP's pension and healthcare costs?

I welcome highly skilled non- EU migrants with open arms, contributing their brainpower and taxes to our economy. I am glad they want to come here over Germany, France, Italy, etc, etc.

As for the comment about retraining the lazy and workshy as highly skilled people (WHO ARE THE ONLY GROUPS AFFECTED BY THIS), I won't even go there.

 

[Bes]

See you pick DOCTOR..why not IT or electrician or Corgi Gas or welding.
CNC programers\ops.

Me and two mates was taught how to program a £1mil robot at Cosworth(worcester) in 4 months by the germans.
And people used to be retrained in the UK. But it all got stopped for some unknow reason.

I don't think welders and machine operators count as 'Highly Skilled' somehow, hence are exempt from this anyway...

 

[eatcustard]

I don't think welders and machine operators count as 'Highly Skilled' somehow, hence are exempt from this anyway...

OK you know best.

It is a skilled job (they do a city and guilds).
But we dont need a non EU doing it, as we can get UK people to train and do it.

 

[Bes]

If the government placed an internal add in the NHS, other government bodys and private employers, offering trainee doctor places. In the understanding that if they didn't cut it, they could return to their old job. The posts would be filled over night. Its rather funny that people point to the unskilled unemployed and claim they will never cut it as a doctor, but totally disregard the rest of the population. There is only a skill shortage in the UK due to government and employers not having in place training programs to meet THEIR skill needs.

DO you have any idea how much money you would waste with that scheme? I would be furious if the government tore down the barriers to entry for one of the most important and respected professions and squandered millions of pounds on half- training people who 'didn't cut it'.

Why do you restrict it to NHS? Why not everyone?

What's wrong with the system in place where if you fulfill a few baseline requirements, you can go and pay a nominal amount per year to attend University and train to become whatever you want? Anyone is allowed to participate you know The Government still pays 90% or so of the cost for doctor training you know.

At the end of the day, if people want to change their lives, THEY should do something about it, not expect Government to. Companies will choose British workers over migrants anyway as the visa process is long and expensive.

 

[Bes]

OK you know best.

It is a skilled job (they do a city and guilds).
But we dont need a non EU doing it, as we can get UK people to train and do it.

Yes and that is what happens. You won't find a single welder in the country on a work permit from outside the EU I promise you. You have just shown your lack of understanding about what a 'Skilled' worker is.

There is some element of skill to it, but it is nothing like the level required for a HSMP or Tier 1 visa. You are looking at scientists, doctors, professors, and people with a specific skill that cannot be sourced locally.

 

[Danthus]

The government will still be working to reduce immigration. I don’t see a broken promise here. Is there something you know that we don’t?

What about the mass immigration from within the EU, nothing can be done about that.

Will there also be another influx of people if Turkey joins the EU?

 

[Bes]

Will there also be another influx of people if Turkey joins the EU?

No much as in the way as there were caps on some Eastern EU members, the same will likely apply to Turkey. Anything else would be political suicide.

 

[Danthus]

Also where is the logic in letting people in when front line services are being slashed?

 

[Bes]

Also where is the logic in letting people in when front line services are being slashed?

Which specific jobs are you referring to here?