Car Crash - insurance say both at fault

Spoonman

Spoonman

Spoonman

Associate
Joined
7 Nov 2004
Posts
168
Location
Manchester
Hi all,

On february 14th 2006 I was involved in a collision with someone that cut in to my lane and then drove off.

Here is what happened.

3 lanes of traffic, bus lane and two lanes for normal vehicles. I was in the right hand lane as I was due to turn right. It's a 30 limit and I was going a few mph under that.

I saw someone cut through from a side road on the left with attempt to get over to the other side of the road (in the opposite direction).

I slowed down and pressed the horn, but I knew I could not avoid the collision, I had no where to go apart from in to the direction of the oncoming traffic.

The front of his car hits the left-rear side of my vehicle. I pull over. He drives off in the opposite direction. I get out of my car and he is nowhere to be seen.

A fellow driver behind me sees it and pulls over and asks if I'm ok (being as the other party didn't stop). I get his details for use as a witness and he drives off.

Someone who claimed to be the other party arrived at the scene on foot, and basically told me it was my fault and I was "driving too fast". We exchange details.

I report the accident to the police and insurance company and the next day I go to the hospital with whiplash. I also specify that the other party DID NOT STOP AT THE SCENE OF THE ACCIDENT.

(we are both with LloydsTSB insurance)

Send all the paperwork of to the insurers.

They write back and ask a few questions (can't remember what exactly, but it was all on the form I sent).

A few months later they write to me saying that it was my fault!

I ring them and ask if they had contacted my witness. They hadn't.

Some 8 months after the accident, the other party sends in an 'independent witness report' saying that I hit his car and "was travelling at excessive speed", and my car "sustained front damage" and his car "sustained side damage"

I write to the insurers saying where I feel the descrepancies lie with his statement.

They write back saying that as there are two contradicting witness reports they are settling the claim with a 50/50 at fault stake.

I think I write to them again but they eventually give me a call just repeating what they stated on the letter.

I'm told that they will not allow me to use the legal cover provided under the policy.

I'm just sick and tired of it by this time and couldn't be arsed trying to argue my case of - my car, no frontal damage, damage to the side. Cars don't travel sideways. I welcome any independent inspection to verify this.

So I lose my 3 years no claims which ****es me off. I haven't signed anything to say that I've accepted it, but it shows up on my dads policy (I'm insured to drive his Merc for something like £15 a year).

I don't care about the car as it's only an old banger which just gets me from a-b, but out of principle I've been meaning to do something about it - as I don't believe it to be my fault and I've lost my no claims as a result of someone elses' dishonestly. He got someone to write a witness report - 8 months after the accident, which was full of lies, just to try and get him off the hook. This ****es me off.

A friend tells me to contact the insurance Ombudsman and also the AA as I would have received legal cover under the breakdown cover.

So people, is there anything I can do to try and clear my record here?
 
Feel for you mate, my mrs is going thru the same thing at the moment. Last week our claim was settled 50/50 even thou we had police statements from the biker involved that hit my mrs smart car admitting blame. He also claimed 1.5k injury. We are at a loss as the insurance company have said in their experience it’s not worth them progressing the claim. It’s annoying as hell and we are still pursuing with the insurance company. I would love to know if there are any regulators that we can get in touch with.
 
so has the claim actually settled or what?

were the repairs to your car carried out by your insurer?

is the third party claiming for the repairs and injury also?

it is very rare for the insurer to settle a claim without your say-so. call them and ask for the current position.

your insurer will only litigate the claim if they have money to recover (ie repair costs). if you wish to go for your 'whiplash' claim, then youll have to do that through one of the many no win no fee places.

if the TP has a spurious witness as you say they do, then let it go to court and let the judge decide.
 
Matt82 said:
so has the claim actually settled or what?

were the repairs to your car carried out by your insurer?

is the third party claiming for the repairs and injury also?

it is very rare for the insurer to settle a claim without your say-so. call them and ask for the current position.

your insurer will only litigate the claim if they have money to recover (ie repair costs). if you wish to go for your 'whiplash' claim, then youll have to do that through one of the many no win no fee places.

if the TP has a spurious witness as you say they do, then let it go to court and let the judge decide.
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^^ What he says.

I did this over a bike accident. I was onlt TPFT anyway, but I used my legal assistance to claim back repars etc. It took a long time to complete and you have to live with losing your no claims till its settled. But if you settle it within the term of the insurance you're entitled to the difference if you would have had 3 years.

I had a barister with me, and he pwned this guy in about 2 questions. He had the whole fake witness etc. When sat in a room with well spoken suited people, the cracks become more aparent and official.
 
barristers will pwn most people in about 2 questions. seeing them work is amazing, the way they can compute and manipulate information to suit them, on the spot, is amazing.

also, if the claim settles in your favour and you have had to renew with the effected NCD... you can arrange for the premium to be recalculated and a refund of the difference made.
 
Ignoring everything else the guy pulled out from a side road to turn right and hit your car in the process. How the hell can that be 50-50, he pulled out into oncoming traffic, you had the right of way.

I'd let it go to court and insist that you have use of the legal service that you've paid for. The witness statement about going too fast also seems suspect, logically if someone claims the other party was going to fast then he'd have pulled out and you'd have side-swiped him, the fact that he side-swiped you to me would logically mean that he never saw you.

Bottom line is he crossed your path and you had right of way, I'd argue with the insurance company till they were blue in the face. Also his witness is bound to be a friend of his so shouldn't be that difficult to get that statement discounted.

I've never understood why people do this, for the other party it still means he'll lose his NCB so why bother to go through this entire charade?
 
I had the same sort of thing last year. I was in a line of queuing traffic waiting for the traffic lights, but in front of me was a keep clear for a side turn on the left which I had left clear.

Silly bint about 8 - 10 cars behind me pulls out and overtakes the whole queue on the other side of the road and then tries to pull back in infront of me to get in the sidestreet at the same time I start to roll forward as the lights were now on green.

She took my front corner off and then continues to drive off and didn't stop. I had no choice but to them follow her 200 yards up the side street before she stopped. So obviously no witness to get backup from.

Swapped details and made it clear that it was her fault for what was a dangerous manouver. Later that day I get a call from her dad asking me all about it so I thought it must have been his car she was driving. Next day I get a call from her insurers for my full details. I asked if it was her car or not and it was, and it was her insurance, so nothing to do with her dad at all. I then asked how soon I can get my car repaired through them and she basically said they were not paying for it as it was a no fault claim as they had it recorded.

6 months later after photo's of the junction, loads of phone calls, and the other part insurers assessing the site in person they said that my story wasn't vaild as there would never be enough traffic queuing up past the keep clear to make someone overtake.

Cost me over £800 to repair it myself, which is still less than the knock on effect of claiming myself.

Nick
 
Nem said:
6 months later after photo's of the junction, loads of phone calls, and the other part insurers assessing the site in person they said that my story wasn't vaild as there would never be enough traffic queuing up past the keep clear to make someone overtake.

Cost me over £800 to repair it myself, which is still less than the knock on effect of claiming myself.

Nick
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:mad: I'd be rabid if they pulled that trick on me. :mad: Have you considered writing to the insurance ombudsman?
 
Thanks everyone,

The only problem is that the insurance company would not let me use my legal protection (she said on the phone that they would not let it go to court). At no point did I say that I agree to or accept their decision either verbally or in writing. When they rang up to tell me I tried arguing but I'd had a long day at work but just couldn't be arsed with it anymore.

I'm not sure if them telling me over the phone constitues me 'accepting' their decision or not, but it would appear that the claim has been settled as it has shown up on my dads' insurance documents (I'm insured to drive his Merc)

As far as I'm concerned one witness is telling the truth, the other is lying, and it is up to the insurance company to decide which. It seems that they couldn't really be bothered.

To me it's obvious as I had right of way and he cut in to my path. I had no where to go.

The key now is how to start the ball rolling for legal action and get it all reveresed.

I don't care about the car, it's the principle of someone trying to rip me off.
 
The last time I had an accident my insurance company tried to make out it was a 50/50 fault claim even though the guy that hit me didnt know the area, drew a diagram of the junction totaly wrong and even had the locations in the wrong place on the diagram he drew. I sent in copies from both multi map and street map to show how the junction was layed out and where the turnoffs led too. I had no witness but they still said it was 50/50. I then pressed to go to court as I wasnt happy with their outcome, the court date was set and low and behold the case was dropped and the other insurance company(not the guy) admitted fault.
 
Spoonman said:
So people, is there anything I can do to try and clear my record here?
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in short no

i had a very similar situation down some tight winding country roads. Woman had just been visiting her ill mother in hospital, was obviously upset and not concentrating on what she was doing. She swerved onto my side of the road so far, that even once i kerbed my alloy moving out of her way, she still scraped all down the side of the car

she files with her insurance that i was driving like a lunatic, i tell them i wasnt and she wasnt looking where she was going. Allmost exactly the same as your case, (albeit with a few bits different, but predominantly the same story)

her insurance company refused to accept liability. And his will do exactly the same, they will argue that they have a witness, and will vigerously defend in court any action against them. Your insurers say the same

insurance companys dont take action against another party unless they are confident they will win. As he has a witness (which nobody can proove is fake) they wont and you will have to claim on your own insurance and loose your ncb just like i did

sucks i know, but i doubt you'll win.
 
MrLOL said:
in short no

i had a very similar situation down some tight winding country roads. Woman had just been visiting her ill mother in hospital, was obviously upset and not concentrating on what she was doing. She swerved onto my side of the road so far, that even once i kerbed my alloy moving out of her way, she still scraped all down the side of the car

she files with her insurance that i was driving like a lunatic, i tell them i wasnt and she wasnt looking where she was going. Allmost exactly the same as your case, (albeit with a few bits different, but predominantly the same story)

her insurance company refused to accept liability. And his will do exactly the same, they will argue that they have a witness, and will vigerously defend in court any action against them. Your insurers say the same

insurance companys dont take action against another party unless they are confident they will win. As he has a witness (which nobody can proove is fake) they wont and you will have to claim on your own insurance and loose your ncb just like i did

sucks i know, but i doubt you'll win.
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:( These insurance stories really get to me, it's terrible people will lie etc. to get themselves off the hook, you were completely innocent driving along, move over and still get fault :mad:
 
Vibez said:
:( These insurance stories really get to me, it's terrible people will lie etc. to get themselves off the hook, you were completely innocent driving along, move over and still get fault :mad:
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it really got to me at the time

i went back and took photographic evidence of the scene showing the skid marks etc.. but they were rejected as they didnt show the accident. Her insurance argued there was no proof those skidmarks related to our accident.

I suppose i could have gone back and faked it for the camera, but i would have thought it was obvious with my alloys having been kerbed to hell and back that id moved over as far as i could safely, and then some again.
 
I feel for you.

I'm currently going through similar.

Guy in wrong lane at roundabout.

I'm exiting, he wants to continue round.

I've got photos, diagrams, quoted highway codes etc.

Plenty of witnesses, but no one can be bothered to stop.

I feel a 50/50 on the cards.
 
Tommy B said:
Keep a digital camera in the car at all times.
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useless though if the person drives off from the accident

a photo of your car at the scene could be faked, as i found with photos taken of the scene of the accident after she had driven 50 yards up the road before stopping.

only photos that would be useable would be ones that show where the cars came to a rest after an accident. if the cars were at speed at the time, and the accident was bad enough to cause both of them to stop, then even having a camera is pointless unless you happen to be taking the photo as the accident happened.
 
Thanks for all the replies. A letter to the insurers stating that I plan to complain to the Ombadsman (probably dodgy spelling but its late) might be in order.

Can I also remind you all that we are both insured with the same insurers, Llloyds Car Insurance. If that changes anything.
 
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