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Cartoons about Mohammed

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by cleanbluesky, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    I cant find them, despite trying, so I apologise... but lets discuss the apparently negative cartoons about Mohammed... which have now been republished.

    I don't want them banned, first and foremost because of free speech.

    Usually there is a problem when people get offended, although this does not neccesarily mean that the object causing the offence is at fault.

    I think that the cartoons at least highlight the growing Western discontent with Islam - and this is something that should be addressed.
     
  2. robmiller

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 26, 2003

    Posts: 16,522

    Location: London

    I think the cartoons highlight the growing Western discontent with Islam, which is a shame. Whilst Islam is possibly my least favourite religion, it's saddening to see people expressing hatred for it when they don't even remotely understand it or what it stands for.
     
  3. DavidMarq

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 2, 2004

    Posts: 1,579

    Location: Stevenage

    Search harder in future Mr CBS ;)

    Linky


    If this is thought to be Inappropriate for the forums I will gladly remove the link.
     
  4. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    I think that is the problem - people's discontent is that we are not examining Islam properly... we are attempting to separate the extremist part from the regular part when they have a complex relationship is deemed non-PC to examine. Also, because we are so obsessed with promoting Islam in that way, we are missing the genuinely decent aspects of it.
    I suppose, without the original cartoons it would be hard to tell whether they were justified - but I think that free speech is very important.
     
  5. robmiller

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 26, 2003

    Posts: 16,522

    Location: London

    Sure - I think the general public's ignorance stems from the fact that it's generally considered taboo to call Muslims out on the fact that there are a lot of extremists within their ranks.

    I don't think these cartoons are sophisticated or carry a message of any worth whatsoever, but it's important to let bigots be bigots if they so choose - although from the looks of it they're more than a little tongue-in-cheek.
     
  6. DavidMarq

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 2, 2004

    Posts: 1,579

    Location: Stevenage

    The cartoons seem to be an attempt at satire with respect to the more extreme aspects of Islam. I can fully understand that some people may consider them to be in bad taste but they don't strike me as particularly offensive. Unless of course you hold the extremist views to be sacrosanct.

    Monty Pythons Life of Brian is a prime example of the Christian faith being sent up. It caused great controversy at the time. However that dosn't stop it being one of the funniest films ever made.
     
  7. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 24,654

    Monty Python was pure gold, a victory for free speech if ever there was one!
     
  8. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    Excellent. I would say the first dont do much but the cartoons that provide satire on the reaction are very good...

    Also, Python for the win.
     
  9. SexyGreyFox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Mar 29, 2003

    Posts: 49,113

    Somebody is going to have to explain some of those cartoons because they went right over my head.
     
  10. mauron

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2004

    Posts: 423

    Location: Beccles

    Wonder what would happen if someone did an Islamic Brian............................
     
  11. Vanilla

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 8,884

    "He's not Mohammed, he's a very naughty boy"
     
  12. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005

    Posts: 8,315

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    What do you mean by "alot of extremists"
    how do you know that?
     
  13. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    I'd say it was an educated guess on his part - I'm sure you're going to say that there are hardly any extremists etc. but we could just as easily ask you how you know there arent? Although I'd like to remind both of you that this is MY THREAD so we all have to show the utmost politeness to each other. I knew it would be a contentious subject when I posted it, but on the whole SC has improved a LOT recently and wanted to see whether we can discuss this properly.

    I'd be more interested to know your views on the comics and the reaction to the comics?
     
  14. gib786

    Banned

    Joined: Dec 12, 2005

    Posts: 1,799

    Location: Leeds

    I am disgusted by those comics. Lets portray mohammad (pbuh) as a terrorist because islam is a religion full of terrorists, ever muslim has to be a terrorist. Im sick of the media always focusing on the minority of muslims who are terrorists, islam is a religion of love peace and compassion.
     
  15. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    I do not believe this is their media image, or that the cartoons are neccesarily saying what you suggest...

    I think you will be please to know that Ken Livingston is planning a celebration of Islam day soon. Guess which day? That's right - 7th of July. Given that various officials are willing to go to such lengths to promote Islam I think it is unfair to suggest that the media are always focussing on terrorist Muslims.

    I am not totaly sure of the context of the cartoons, and I am not sure the original ones are constructive BUT the ones criticising reaction to the originals are...

    As far as examining terrorism within Islam it is a problem for everyone, unless you approve of idiots like Hamas strapping bombs to children.
    What if these comics were drawn by a Muslim, in order to remind Muslims about the deceny of Islam rather than the disgusting spectre of killing innocents that many people do in the name of Islam? Your first reaction to the comic was 'Islam is not like that, that is unfair' and it has made you question the nature of Islam. Are questions such as this not important when many of your brothers feel the need to kill themselves, and other Muslims and non-Muslims?

    Also, be aware that this is not hypocracy in any shape or form, as we have borne this and worse with regard to Christianity at the hands of Monty Python... if we find the courage to examine ourselves in this way and it has had a positive effect, why should we not examine others?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2006
  16. gib786

    Banned

    Joined: Dec 12, 2005

    Posts: 1,799

    Location: Leeds

    Im not pleased by this, mainly because this will attract attention due to the unfortunate events of last year, and as such people will be angry.

    I agree with this, people should examine terrorism within islam, and i dont approve of hamas but lately all i ever see is people focusing on the terrorist side and not the rest of islam.

    To be honest if the comics were drawn by a muslim I would still be disgusted, mainly because they are insulting a prophet, and I feel that regardless of any religion a persons beliefs should not be insulted, im sure christians were offended by the life of brian in the same way that I am about these cartoons.

    I personally do not class this minority as my brothers, as they are clearly doing things which are againsts the basic principles of islam.
     
  17. Dingo

    Banned

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 1,500

    Location: Sandy, Beds

    gib 786....if your religion is of sound principles, and the perpetrators of acts which cannot be reconciled with those religious principles are exposed for what they really are by the practitioners of the "real" faith, then harmonious balance will be restored.

    Remember, faith is a principle that cannot be averted by mild criticism, whomever it comes from, faith is a belief that can ride ridicule, disbelief, and hegemony can seldom be won by denial of acts commited by "followers" of the faith.

    Living the true values of any faith is far more powerful than bombs and rhetoric.


    "Hegemony
    This is a term used by A. Gramsci to describe how the domination of one class over others is achieved by a combination of political and ideological means. Although political force—coercion—is always important, the role of ideology in winning the consent of the dominated classes may be even more significant. The balance between coercion and consent will vary from society to society,

    The latter being more important in capitalist societies. . . . Hegemony is unlikely ever to be complete ."


    I suggest that you "instruct" your brothers, whom you deny, yet are using your faith as a vehicle, that an educated population will exert their own reason over any events, and conclude that the evil outweighs the good.......in your hands is the solution!!
     
  18. robmiller

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 26, 2003

    Posts: 16,522

    Location: London

    You're either denying that people like Abu Hamza, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Osama bin Laden etc exist, or you're denying that they're muslims - which is it?

    The blatant egalitarianism of some people, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, disturbs me. The fact is, not all religions are equal. Virtually all of them are an unnecessary and detrimental aspect of society, but some are much more harmful than others; given the sheer number of extremists that Islam produces, and the number of people who are willing to twist it to pursue violent ends, I'd say Islam was currently top of the list, and I'm not afraid to say that in the slightest.
     
  19. The Edge

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 5,730

    Location: Birmingham

    I can see why cartoons featuring Muhammed would cause offense, and they would no matter what the content or subject. They cause offense due to (And i'm not sure 100% on this, but it's definatley there somewhere we had problems at work when we wanted to act a scene with him) one of their (10?) commandments which says "You shall not worship any false idol". A cartoon of Muhammed is not the real thing and is therefore a false idol.

    To be honest they would be much funnier without the name Muhammed emblazoned across them, since they are clearly also caricatures of Bin Laden. The guy has almost certainly put Muhammed's name on them to cause a reaction and a problem, which for me is as good a reason as any to not print them :)

    Why use Muhammeds name like this? I'm sure he wasn't a pefect person, but he was certainly not a terrorist. So why paint a picture of him in that vein?

    So in short are they amusing? With one modification yes (Especially the Virgins one :D)

    Are they in bad taste? Again in their current format yes, remove the name Muhammed and i don't beleive they are.
     
  20. Edinho

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 29, 2003

    Posts: 4,157

    Location: Not darn sarf

    There lies the problem. You rant on about how its all about peace and compassion when I hardly see any of it. Christianity and Islam are exactly the same they are in it only for their own self interest.

    And by the way if you show so much compassion and forgiveness how come you have 3 factions killing each other in Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2006