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Cartoons about Mohammed

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by cleanbluesky, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. kibblerok

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 21, 2002

    Posts: 5,011

    Location: Manchester

    Big deal - they've shown some cartoons... if they don't like them dont read them and the newspaper from now on.

    I dont see what the Danish have to apologise about to be honest... what are Muslims going to do, boycott their bacon?
     
  2. 36:)

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 1,335

    Location: =)

    They've already started boycotting in some middle-eastern countries.

    I'm joining those who are buying Danish, all I can think of is Lego and Danish Football Shirts..

    It's interesting why the cartoons were constructed in the first place and for that reason it's why I support the authors viewpoints and Freedom of Speech, they might be "racist" or whatever, but still censorship by fear is not the way to go.
     
  3. Hector

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,413

    is it you'd rather just defend things that are free today? or do you challange whats already banned? would you go to court and face jail to make your point? or will you only make your stand while it's legal to do so?

    are you a pioneer or a sheep? dont take offence, it's freedom of speech you understand.
     
  4. anarchist

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Dec 2, 2004

    Posts: 9,702

    Location: Midlands

    And along similar lines, I presume you've read about that experiement where they took a group of students and made some prison guards and some prisoners, in a mock-up prison? Quite scary how that turned out too.

    But to answer the question yes, some humans are more gullible than others. Like everything about our personalities, each person has different qualities in differing degrees.
     
  5. anarchist

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Dec 2, 2004

    Posts: 9,702

    Location: Midlands

    I have an idea for a controversial modern art exhibition...

    Models of the prophet - made out of lego :)
     
  6. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 6,023

    Location: South Shields


    hehe..copyright that idea as its only a matter of time!

    I bet Carlsberg are worried as well...the 2 biggest Danish products -Bacon and Beer

    I can see how this boycott of their products in the muslim world is going to hurt them :rolleyes:
     
  7. DarkShadow

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,703

    Location: Sheffield

    Specifically, who's value system?

    It's Insult when the followers of Islam define it as an insult.

    You will find that one insult towards Islam will be percieved as an Insult by anyone who is a muslim. So it won't be selective people who will cause an uproar.
     
  8. DarkShadow

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,703

    Location: Sheffield

    Don't be silly.

    It concerns every muslim on the planet.
     
  9. RaohNS

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 23, 2004

    Posts: 8,410

    Location: In the Gym

    Just in http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4672642.stm once again someone out of a job because of Islam. I'm sick of always bending over backwards to what is in all cases a backwards religion.

    In my eyes we should exercise the right to free press. It is not meant to offend it is a joke.. some of these cartoons are absolutely hilarious too i must say and theres one or two that i can tell from a Muslim point of view gets a little close to the bone and quite rightly so. With a religion having so many people willing to do such terrible things why should it not be criticised.

    >| Raoh |<
     
  10. AJUK

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Nov 14, 2003

    Posts: 10,949

    I think that it is not only healthy to allow anyone the right of free speech but as far as Islam is concerned, it is absolutely essential. Out of all the groups who are vocal in society muslims prove time and again that they are not capable of reasoned thought or debate.

    In my experience, when pressured a muslim will argue one of three points. The first is usually the moral degenration of western society, the second is that the US/UK are all to blame for oppressing them or every problem of the planet is the fault of Israel. Just to annoy them even more I will recite some words from a character in a fairy story but they do have some relevance.

    Mathew 7 ;)
     
  11. anarchist

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Dec 2, 2004

    Posts: 9,702

    Location: Midlands

    I can see the value in not deliberately trying to offend people. I don't think any of us do that on a day to day basis - set out to deliberately upset people.

    Having said that I think banning such things is a slippery slope that I don't want us to get on because I can see it being abused to basically curb all legitimate protests as well.
     
  12. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 6,023

    Location: South Shields

    so are we to ban alcohol in the west because under muslim law its not allowed?

    if we are not a muslim country how can muslim law apply?

    I simply do not understand the thinking behind it...it offends muslims who live outside of the country concerned so they want the man responsible arrested..who has done nothing illegal in his country of residence...then to threaten death and bombings is simply unforgiveable and just enhances the stereotypes...they are their own worst enemies

    instead of saying why they dont like and explaining the reasoning behind their objections in a calm and civilised way they take to the streets in thousands, burn flags and threaten violence....how is anything ever going to be soved if that is the reaction to every thing they dont like
     
  13. RaohNS

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 23, 2004

    Posts: 8,410

    Location: In the Gym

    well there was a massive stir up about Ribena containing 0.000000000000000001 particle of alcohol a few months back.

    We arent a Muslim country, but i believe there is a movement to have Shariah law in the UK and i believe one group wanted to bring it into a city/town here a few years back (if that)

    Its the Muslim way FTM if someone makes Islam into a joke then that person must be beheaded/threatened/sacked/have political sanctions put on it/ or have letter bombs and death threats through their doors.

    Strangely enough has anyone noticed that the crescent actually looks very similar to the Scythe that our "envisionment" of death carries?

    >| Raoh |<
     
  14. FTM

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 10, 2003

    Posts: 6,023

    Location: South Shields

    I suppose my point is instead of a mature complaint explaining exactly to people who didnt know why it was so offensive would have been sufficient...and the western public would have understood. Instead we get fiery rhetoric which instantly antagonises people so we get the opposite reaction..and you end up with the western press across europe publishing them just to prove a point


    when understanding and concilliation could have been the way forward we got the polar opposite...death threats and boycotts....people simply do not believe when people say Islam is a religion of peace
     
  15. RaohNS

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 23, 2004

    Posts: 8,410

    Location: In the Gym

    Islam isnt a religion of peace.

    >| Raoh |<
     
  16. mrthingyx

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Apr 3, 2003

    Posts: 15,233

    Location: Cambridge

    Principle and practice have always differed widely. The only way to get a better understanding of religion is READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT FOR YOURSELF IN ITS ORIGINAL LANGUAGE. Too hard? Then ensure that your criticism is limited to what you know of - i.e. the religion you see practised on the TV. Which, boringly enough, is almost never what is written down in the Torah, Quran, Bible, etc. And then we throw translation into the mix. Ever wondered why Muslims like to have their Qurans in Arabic? How about why there are so many different translations of the Bible, all of which -when quoted - should have their translation referenced, too?

    Apologies about getting back to the original topic, but I believe Muslims found the cartoons offensive because they have a representation of the prophet Muhammed... when the Ottoman Empire swept through numerous Christian-occupied areas, they were always very quick to scrub off the painted faces of Jesus and (I believe) Mary, too. It's all to do with holding it sacred.

    Now, I think that the orignal cartoonist could have portrayed Ahmadinejad or some equally hardline ayotollah instead but in order to be more contraversial (and hence more saleable) he/she went with Muhammed. Freedom of speech? Tick that box. Courteous, polite and respectful? No.

    The big argument here is about freedom of speech and its bounds: I personally exercise my supposed right to it every day, but am very careful to be courteous, polite and respectful. If you consider that it would be my right to accept an invitation to dinner in one of your homes and then - in all seriousness - say something very rude and offensive then you shouldn't take slight at all. Because it's my right.

    In the west, I personally believe we exercise the right to hurl unjustified, untrue and downright rude criticism around willy nilly and then unfurl the banner of 'freedom of speech!' to suggest such vitriole is beyond reproach.
     
  17. Scam

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 13,172

    Location: London

    I don't want to get sucked into the debate here (too much dissertation to write!) so i'll just post this link which tells the story of how the originals came about, along with some other interesting facts. I'm not sure how reliable a source it is (noting what else th author has written) but he does link off to references. Make of it what you will

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20622
     
  18. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    If I think CBS is an idiot, am I allowed to say so? If not, why not?*
    If I think the queen is an idiot, am I allowed to say so? If not, why not?
    If I think Mohammed was an idiot, am I allowed to say so? If not, why not?

    All three people mentioned above are real historical figures. Why am I allowed to say that two of them are idiots, but not the other? Sure, CBS or the queen could sue me for libel or slander or whichever it is, but would I immediately lose my job and be at risk of death?

    This is insane. It's exactly why we don't need religious hatred laws - it's already enough of a thoughtcrime to criticise or insult people of other religions.

    *Ignoring all forum rules about not insulting people.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  19. RaohNS

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 23, 2004

    Posts: 8,410

    Location: In the Gym

    Excellent post Von Helmet its almost like they class their rights and their religion above everyone elses, yet they constantly say our gods are the same (which they are not) Allah being Islam and God being Christian (Catholic) hence Allahu Akhbar ... Allah is Greatest

    >| Raoh |<
     
  20. V-Spec

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 8, 2005

    Posts: 3,698

    Location: London

    what state of mind does someone have to be in, to get this wound up OVER A CARTOON DRAWING!??!?

    Gunmen are surrounding the newspaper building with all kinds of demands to kill danes OVER A CARTOON DRAWING

    Islamic states are boycotting danish products, OVER A CARTOON DRAWING

    They want apologies from the prime ministers of France, Denmark etc, OVER A CARTOON DRAWING...

    Each and every single person on the planet who is offended by this CARTOON DRAWING is an idiot..

    Half of these people would be less offended if members of their own familes were blown up by a REAL bomb...