Change in Career due to Covid redundancy

Soldato
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Hey folks,

As some of you may know I'm an airline pilot and have been for around 15 years, most recently with Virgin Atlantic. Covid has not been kind to anyone, but the aviation industry has been particularly hard hit and because of this I'm being made redundant. Its been an tough pill to swallow, as its all I've ever known and was my dream job for as long as I can remember.

The aviation industry as a whole is on it knees and many thousands of pilots are in a similar situation. As such there isn't, and most likely won't be any flying jobs or even aviation related jobs for a good number of years.

I now find myself in a totally unwanted position where I need to make a full on career change aged nearly 40 and with no work experience other then flying aircraft. I'm lucky that I have enough savings to pay the bills for a year, so I don't need to leap into the first thing I find.

I'm currently trying to narrow down my options on what sort of job would suit me and that I would be good at. The biggest hurdle is that with zero experience it will be an up hill struggle to even get a job at all. I have a degree in Computer Science and Management, however that was 20 years ago and I honestly can't remember anything. As I said as well I've never worked in IT so have no experience to fall back on.

I'd appreciate any hints, tips etc from anyone who has had to do something similar. At present I'm a little like a deer in the headlights trying to figure out what to do.
 
Soldato
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What sort of thing do you want to do?

Do you want to work towards a high flying career or run your own business?

I've been asking myself a similar thing of late. 44 and I was made redundant in February.

Although I've spent my entire career working in the corporate world, of late I've become disillusioned with that to some degree and would quite like the idea of my own business.
 
Soldato
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What sort of thing do you want to do?

Do you want to work towards a high flying career or run your own business?

I've been asking myself a similar thing of late. 44 and I was made redundant in February.

Although I've spent my entire career working in the corporate world, of late I've become disillusioned with that to some degree and would quite like the idea of my own business.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear that you are going through the same stress!

Well I WANT to keep flying, but that's not an option. I'm hoping that in a few years, probably 3+, aviation will recover and I'll be able to return to flying. However it would be hard to return having not flown for so long, but again employers would hopefully take covid into account for the lack of currency.

In an ideal world I also like the idea of running my own business, it would be something I could continue on the side when I return to flying. Sadly I've no experience in anything to do for my own business....

As such I'm considering anything. HGV training is an option, however all the jobs I've seen advertised require experience. I do enjoy IT but at a very much hobby/amateur level and so would need to do some training before being able to even apply for jobs, but again most require experience.
 
Associate
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Buy a cesna/lear jet and ring up a few columbians.
Minted in a few weeks:D

Honestly though, employers should take the fact that you're instilled with procedures and h&s as a priority as a good thing.
Good luck in whatever path you take.
 
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Soldato
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Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear that you are going through the same stress!

Well I WANT to keep flying, but that's not an option. I'm hoping that in a few years, probably 3+, aviation will recover and I'll be able to return to flying. However it would be hard to return having not flown for so long, but again employers would hopefully take covid into account for the lack of currency.

In an ideal world I also like the idea of running my own business, it would be something I could continue on the side when I return to flying. Sadly I've no experience in anything to do for my own business....

As such I'm considering anything. HGV training is an option, however all the jobs I've seen advertised require experience. I do enjoy IT but at a very much hobby/amateur level and so would need to do some training before being able to even apply for jobs, but again most require experience.

What about a trade?

I looked at electrician courses, for £2,500ish you can get a domestic installation qualification.

When I was being quoted more than that to rewire my house, it seemed a pretty decent price for a skill that will be useful for ever.
 
Soldato
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What about a trade?

I looked at electrician courses, for £2,500ish you can get a domestic installation qualification.

When I was being quoted more than that to rewire my house, it seemed a pretty decent price for a skill that will be useful for ever.

Yea Electrician is on my list of possible choices. As you say its a trade that will always be useful, as well as in demand! Its not quite that simple as getting the basic qualification. As I understand the regs the big benefit item is being able to sign off your own work, Part P and that requires a more study and on the job training. None of which are impossible to do with a little graft and money. Plumber is also an option and has similar training requirements. Of course trades themselves have lots of options. Basic domestic stuff tends to not be where the money is, and commerical is usually more money for your time but is a lot more regulated.

For me IT is more of a draw interest wise. As I said I have a degree in CS which isn't a bad place to start. I'd need to choose a route and then do some qualifications to even get my foot in the door and just hope I can find somewhere that doesn't require experience. Deciding which part of IT interests me is another problem in itself :p
 
Associate
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I'm kind of in a similar place, just a few years younger. Cyber security has been something I've been interested in, I'm leaning towards IT support positions at the moment.
 
Caporegime
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What about the RAF, weren't they running some scheme for ex-airline pilots?

Though, that's most definetly not the life for everyone espically fast jet.
 
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If your main goal is to ride out the dip in flying before returning, I'd try to stay within the industry as - in my head at least - employers would see that as more valuable than HGV or other unrelated work. I appreciate HGV work is probably technically one of the most similar actual roles, but it's a bit of a departure, culturally.

As said above, the defence aviation world is very much live and kicking. Although your skillset may well be focused on an operator's POV, you almost certainly have valuable experience and knowledge of the aviation world which I assume would make you attractive to most aviation organisations; I know in my own organisation there are a number of more administrative/planning/quality based roles that would benefit from having someone come in with awareness as opposed to none. I'm talking an environment that is just as knee deep in the CAA as it is the MAA. You might be best served looking for contractor work in this regard.
 
Soldato
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Could be a good option. Maybe do some IOSH training?

Personally, I'd be looking at backup options like the above, but try and get another air job. Maybe air freight? Or otherwise wait it out? People will be wanting to make up for lost time in a year or 2.
 
Soldato
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Thanks for the replies. Staying in the industry would be the sensible option but sadly as I said everything to do with aviation is totally unstable. It’s not just been pilots that are affected, it’s been pretty much everyone. Virgin has halved in size for example, BA has made 10,000 people redundant. There just aren’t any jobs available.

The RAF have indeed taken some of the unemployed civilian pilots in, however the majority of them are ex-services anyway. A lot of them quite recently as well so it’s a natural fit. In fact I’m not aware of any purely civilian pilots that have been given any jobs in the RAF.

As for the defence industry, in my experience the defence and civilian sectors are quite separate. As you say there are a quite a few jobs in defence, and quite near me in Farnborough. However as with every other job I’ve seen so far they are all wanting experience both in the role but also in the sector.

Ideally I want to try and take advantage of this situation and diversify my skills and experience (which isn’t hard as I’ve said I currently only can fly planes!) as this would be useful going forward. Being able to continue doing something on the side when I return to flying as well as if/when something else badly affects the aviation industry in the future I’ll have something to fall back on.
 
Caporegime
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As such I'm considering anything. HGV training is an option,

Yea Electrician is on my list of possible choices.

What??? No offence, but these and suggestions of IT support (presumably via some vendor certs), H&S etc.. are "good" jobs from the perspective of someone with no other valuable skills, no degree etc..etc.. Not knocking someone who say decides to pursue any of those careers, they're good solid jobs etc.. pay is reasonable etc.. but.. you do have other potential options here.

I mean if you want to take your past experience as just being the equivalent of a glorified bus driver, train driver etc.. then sure.

But I'd disagree with this:

The biggest hurdle is that with zero experience it will be an up hill struggle to even get a job at all. I have a degree in Computer Science and Management, however that was 20 years ago and I honestly can't remember anything. As I said as well I've never worked in IT so have no experience to fall back on.

You don't have zero experience for a start - you have 15 years experience, as a manager in charge of equipment worth millions, hundreds of lives and a team of co-pilot + stewards/stewardesses.

You don't have zero IT experience, your aircraft is absolutely full of IT equipment, some of which you needed to know inside and out in order to be qualified to fly it.

Presumably some of it comes via boeing/airbus, some of it is from 3rd party manufacturers?

At the moment (if you don't trash your CV by going off and doing something like training as a HGV driver or becoming an entry level IT support bod) you're an experienced professional with management skills etc..

A pilot is still an impressive job to people, generally seen as a "professional", if you were in the armed forces (save for a few helicopter pilots in the Army) you'd be commissioned and would have a career track to take you to senior management roles.

With that in mind I'd suggest there are other options if you were to aim higher.

Firstly you could try your luck with your current skill set/experience... though at the moment you've got nothing to suggest career change beyond explaining your redundancy situation... but still some sort of management/project management role within a related aerospace, defence sector company could be worth a look.

Other option is of course further training - that you don't remember your degree content isn't necessarily a deal breaker save for perhaps specialist MSc courses.. for example if you were to go for say IT Security related MSc then you might want to look at some intense revision/study of some undergrad material over the next month!

Timing is an issue - you might need to act quickly as courses tend to start at the end of this month/start of next month but that you can support yourself for a year is good here - do a 1 year MSc or MBA perhaps??? (You can get an additional load from the government too to cover tuition so if you have the living expenses sorted then....)

Things to perhaps consider that you could get into using your BSc and that don't necessarily require you to have remembered your undergrad stuff... in fact perhaps your general maturity, work experience will be more relevant useful here:

Some sort of MSc in Project management - you've got management skils remember, you've got a "professional" background - do that then go to the aerospace/defence industry, plenty of former armed forces types there - they'll likely respect your previous pilot background. You don't necessarily need to get into IT project management per se - project management is more general - maybe join a consultancy firm/big 4 etc.. maybe go into an engineering PM role within aerospace etc..

Some sort of conversion MSc in computer science - technically undergrad material, might be revision of stuff you've covered before, might be new stuff too - tailor your dissertation to some area you want to work in (or do it in conjunction with an external supervisor/industry employer) and pivot from MSc into job as BA, PM, Dev whatever...

an MBA - these can get expensive and might not always be worthwhile.... however your situation might be one of those where they could be. The top MBA programs are expensive - London Business School etc.. and you don't mention your undergrad uni... might not be feasible.

The potential alternative here though - maybe check out some of the courses/institutions specific to the UK - again I'm looking at this from potential aerospace/defence... CV being seen by ex-Armed forces officers or similar types... these probs aren't going to ping the interests of big consultancy firms, banks etc..

(might be worth checking out other 1 year masters courses at these places too - not exactly places to appear on world's top MBA lists but for specific UK/defence/aerospace reasons...)

Firstly there is Cranfield - this is military linked, aerospace background also acts as a defence academy for senior officers... could be a good fit for an ex-pilot
https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/

Secondly there is Henley, part of the University of Reading these days but was originally set up as a sort of "Staff college" equivalent for civilian leaders both within the UK's civil service and nationalised & private industry.

https://www.henley.ac.uk/

^^^ either of those could be worth a punt.... especially if your CV is then read by some ex Wing Commander or whatever thinking "Ah, pilot, educated at Cranfield... well there's a good chap" etc..

Also - I presume, with an MBA, if you were to go back to flying, then there are more senior roles you could also fill later on as a pilot and/or progress within, management in the ariline later if you stop flying again - simply by virtue of your MBA and year or two out managing stuff within say the aerospace industry.

Again generally they are expensive, I don't have one myself but I have seen them work for people... for example a developer -> dev manager pursuing an MBA... becoming a more senior dev manager and then after a couple of take overs being a farily senior guy -> being appointed CTO of a newly taken over company... and various devs who started with him being like "WTF, he's a CTO now... how did that happen?"
 
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Caporegime
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Various MSc courses if the MBA fees are too steep (personally I'd not assume the finance ones here are worth much... if you want to study finance then go to LSE, Warwick, Cambridge etc..), the general management one could be worth a shout... perhaps the logistics one could be a pivot into a management role in an specialist air freight or just big logicstics company with planes etc.. too.

https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/som/masters-courses

Also, on the IT side, could look at stuff like this:

Degree apprentiship - get a job and study for a masters at the same time at Newcastle - they have a non experienced option:

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/work-with-us/degree-apprenticeships/mscdigitaltechnologysolutions/
• Data Analytics Specialism for experienced IT professionals
• Cyber Security Specialism for experienced IT professionals
Software Engineering Specialism for non-technical experts

Personally I think leverage the Pilot/"management" experience and get yourself a management role that pays a professional salary etc.. don't just go for some new joe job starting from scratch.
 
Soldato
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@dowie really appreciate the long and detailed post. You make some great points and I agree with most of them. Sadly my experience so far is that people outside of aviation don't really understand the skill set required to be a pilot and as such how it can be useful away from aviation. Most seem to have a relatively narrow view on what they require, most being specific experience in the field of the job. As you say pilots have many useful skills including leadership/team working skills, advanced risk assessment, multitasking, quick decision making, detailed technical and theoretical knowledge etc etc to name but a few. And yes a lot of these can be useful in other industries. The hard part is finding industries that will allow you to even interview, let alone work to show how our skills can be useful.


Yes it can be argued that some options I'm looking at are a step down professionally, but if there are vacancies now and will allow me to stretch my savings another 6 months or even to 2 years then that would be hugely beneficial. Whilst I do have savings for a year, that is literally everything I have and so can't spend a whole year studying as once I finished I'd have to start selling the house etc! Ideally I want to study for a few months and then start working. Depending on what I choose to study I'll try and get a job asap to help make my savings last as long as possible whilst studying on the side. This is what is hard to balance, needing money to support my family (we've a 7 month old) whilst trying to find another career which ideally I can do on the side when I start flying again.

However I think I will also try and raise my ambitions a little and try and find more professional options to at least apply for!
 
Caporegime
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How far are you casting your net in the search for flying jobs?

Bush logistics in Borneo? Regional flights in China?

Will be hard with a young family to begin with, but you need to play the long game if you want to stay in the industry and avoid losing the house.
 
Soldato
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How far are you casting your net in the search for flying jobs?

Bush logistics in Borneo? Regional flights in China?

Will be hard with a young family to begin with, but you need to play the long game if you want to stay in the industry and avoid losing the house.

The worldwide aviation job market is in tatters. There’s aren’t any jobs going sadly. A number of adverts are looking for expressions of interest but these rarely lead to a job.

However I’m also not prepared to take my family out of the UK, especially to third world countries in Africa. This is why I’m planning on stepping away from flying temporarily and find a new career to develop.

As I mentioned above I will try and keep my options open with regards to management positions but in the mean time I’m going try and be proactive. With a CS degree I’m still leaning towards some sort of IT career.
 
Man of Honour
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Are things that bad? I subscribe to some pilots who vlog including a couple of 737 pilots and though it went quiet for a bit and one lost his job they seem to be scraping enough flying work together though one is mostly flying freight now rather than passengers which he used to do.
 
Soldato
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Are things that bad? I subscribe to some pilots who vlog including a couple of 737 pilots and though it went quiet for a bit and one lost his job they seem to be scraping enough flying work together though one is mostly flying freight now rather than passengers which he used to do.

Pretty much all airlines either have, or are in the process of making pilots redundant. And the delay in Covid recovery makes it likely that airlines will continue to cut their schedules and so their crews.

Yes there is some flying happening, and most of that is cargo and if you are lucky enough to be on the right fleet at the right time you are safe. However for every pilot with a job there is probably at least one being made redundant.
 
Soldato
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Thought about being some kind of specialist drone pilot (surveys and such)?

Probably not going to make you minted but I would have thought you could get some self-employed work at least a few days a week maybe?
 
Soldato
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Hey folks,

As some of you may know I'm an airline pilot and have been for around 15 years, most recently with Virgin Atlantic. Covid has not been kind to anyone, but the aviation industry has been particularly hard hit and because of this I'm being made redundant. Its been an tough pill to swallow, as its all I've ever known and was my dream job for as long as I can remember.

The aviation industry as a whole is on it knees and many thousands of pilots are in a similar situation. As such there isn't, and most likely won't be any flying jobs or even aviation related jobs for a good number of years.

I now find myself in a totally unwanted position where I need to make a full on career change aged nearly 40 and with no work experience other then flying aircraft. I'm lucky that I have enough savings to pay the bills for a year, so I don't need to leap into the first thing I find.

I'm currently trying to narrow down my options on what sort of job would suit me and that I would be good at. The biggest hurdle is that with zero experience it will be an up hill struggle to even get a job at all. I have a degree in Computer Science and Management, however that was 20 years ago and I honestly can't remember anything. As I said as well I've never worked in IT so have no experience to fall back on.

I'd appreciate any hints, tips etc from anyone who has had to do something similar. At present I'm a little like a deer in the headlights trying to figure out what to do.

Hi Blinkz,

Sorry to read this, I was aware there was a few pilots of the forums and it's a shame what is going on. I don't work in the industry, but it was one of those "dream jobs" that I never went for and so I have followed it for some time.

Not that I have much/any advice different to the above, I feel your experience would be suited to some form of strategy and management alignment, I know there is some opportunities for this knocking around. For example, my place has People Engagement Managers. Or for example, a Business Relationship Manager role - working between the business and management.

On a side note, I did happen to notice this chap talking about cross-training on LinkedIn - might be worth a follow: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinstork/

Good luck!
 
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