Charlie Gard

dl8860 · 25 Jul 2017 at 16:30

StriderX said:
Hopefully the judge finds them in contempt if they keep agitating.

Hopefully he doesn't, as these are extreme circumstances.

It's a tough balance between the interests of the parents and the interests of the child.

StriderX · 25 Jul 2017 at 16:49

Interests of the child are absolute.

Caged · 25 Jul 2017 at 16:51

dl8860 said:
It's a tough balance between the interests of the parents and the interests of the child.

The law is pretty clear on that actually

dl8860 · 25 Jul 2017 at 16:55

OK so then why do we allow circumcision, or parents to bring up their kids with a certain religion?

I'm not saying I agree with it in all cases, but the world works by allowing (for better mostly, but sometimes for worse), for parents to decide how their children's lives should play out.

StriderX · 25 Jul 2017 at 16:56

Because the state is dumb 99% of the time.

Tosno · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:12

StriderX said:
Interests of the child are absolute.

*Unless it's an unwanted baby then parent(s) interests are absolute

StriderX · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:13

A fetal colony isnt a child, but whatever.

Sliver · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:16

Tosno said:
*Unless it's an unwanted baby then parent(s) interests are absolute

I disagree. A baby is totally dependant on it's survival and well being on being cared for. Parents can look after themselves. Even if given up for adoption, a baby requires love and care. Parents interests are not absolute.

Tosno · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:18

StriderX said:
A fetal colony isnt a child, but whatever.

It even sounds almost believable using such dehumanising terms but it wont be just "fetal colonies" if the BMA gets their way, but yeah the child's rights are absolute if they loved and wanted but their rights are not absolute if they are not wanted.

Caged · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:24

dl8860 said:
OK so then why do we allow circumcision, or parents to bring up their kids with a certain religion?

I'm not saying I agree with it in all cases, but the world works by allowing (for better mostly, but sometimes for worse), for parents to decide how their children's lives should play out.

I don't agree with parents cutting bits off their kids either.

darkgen · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:50

Latest court ongoing ...
Gracious me; I feel for the parents but trying to uproot the entire apparatus in supporting life-support to include the resources to support such a death at home is now beyond reason.

There are other children in care and support from this hospital.

dowie · 25 Jul 2017 at 17:57

sense of entitlement of these parents is ridiculous - maybe they can use some of their funds for a private ambulance and private staff if they want all this fanning about... not like the NHS is stretched as it is... not to mention an intensive care bed and the time/attention of various staff have been occupied for longer than necessary due to this misguided court case

atpbx · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:13

The have a million and a bit of complete morons money to burn through, they will keep going at this as long as they like because they have been enabled way past what is reasonable.

darkgen · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:14

dowie said:
sense of entitlement of these parents is ridiculous - maybe they can use some of their funds for a private ambulance and private staff if they want all this fanning about... not like the NHS is stretched as it is... not to mention an intensive care bed and the time/attention of various staff have been occupied for longer than necessary due to this misguided court case

Its utterly dreadful. Are they doing this based on the needs of their child or their own?

It’s gone far too far now. I pray the judge makes the correct decision tomorrow.

Orionaut · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:27

Sliver said:
I disagree. A baby is totally dependant on it's survival and well being on being cared for. Parents can look after themselves. Even if given up for adoption, a baby requires love and care. Parents interests are not absolute.

I think the comment was more about the "right" for parents to kill unwanted babies on demand (Subject to certain conditions).

Steedie · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:49

Such a tragic case

poor little man.

Just out of interest, and this isn't specific to little Charlie's case, when they basically decide to turn off the life support, is it just a case of switching off the ventilator and any other support? Doesn't that mean he effectively suffocates, which doesn't seem a nice way to go. Or do they basically put him under some kind of anesthetic so there's no suffering? I feel very ignorant asking that but it's only with cases like this that I've ever thought about such horrible situations

Minstadave · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:56

You'd normally give some morphine or midazolam if there's any signs of distress. Your CO2 rises quickly and that has an anaesthetic effect too.

Destination · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:57

Tosno said:
*Unless it's an unwanted baby then parent(s) interests are absolute

I think you mean an early stage unborn foetus perhaps, rather than an actual baby which breaths and lives on its own?
Anyway your point is off topic and moot.

Dis86 · 25 Jul 2017 at 18:58

Minstadave said:
You'd normally give some morphine or midazolam if there's any signs of distress. Your CO2 rises quickly and that has an anaesthetic effect too.

My understanding is measurement of the brains reaction to rising co2 levels is one of the ways to test for brain death.

Destination · 25 Jul 2017 at 19:00

dowie said:
sense of entitlement of these parents is ridiculous - maybe they can use some of their funds for a private ambulance and private staff if they want all this fanning about... not like the NHS is stretched as it is... not to mention an intensive care bed and the time/attention of various staff have been occupied for longer than necessary due to this misguided court case

The parents did offer to employ private nursing staff at their own house, then said they would aim to recoup the costs from the NHS later. WTF?
The hospital said Charlie would require the services of a doctor, looked for a private specialists who was sufficiently trained, there is no one in the country.
The parents want days and days with him, the hospital likely are thinking of the parents mental wellbeing, and would suggest a shorter time.

Lawyers have done well no doubt.