China Supreme Court Sides With Mining Operator in Battle Over 485,000 GPUs

[Jono8]

It doesn't matter if it's manipulated or not, the strength is in privacy features. Already is helping the "little man" even in the UK, massive darknet markets have sprung up which is enabling subjugated classes of people like drug users evade the government

Privacy which will not be allowed if it ever to be taken seriously as a proper currency for a developed nation.

I'm not sure singing the praises of how it helps drug users carry out untraced transactions is really an argument for it though?

Bitcoin is a speculative plaything and, as you say, a way for shady transactions to be made with a modicum of anonymity.

 

[arknor]

Does it have more value than the cost to power it or the limitless costs of damaging the environment?

How much is the public having to subsidise this behaviour through increased tariffs?

most mining on a mass scale are purposely built near a renewable energy source.
where they can purchase excess energy for cheap, you realise most renewable energy can't be stored right? they can't just plant a mountain of batteries.

yea some of them use the excess energy to pump water into a reservoir then use that water to power turbines as needed but it's not the standard.

most renwables are pumping out their peak energy during offpeak hours when no one needs it.

if some company can make use of this energy and help make renewable energy more profitable and speed up the amount of money invested in renewable and energy storage then is it really a bad thing?

These bitcoin farms aren't necessarily working constantly, they will be turned on and off depending on the price of energy, they won't be on some fixed tariff they are buying at the source the excess.

Terrible waste of GPUs though

 

[Energize]

Privacy which will not be allowed if it ever to be taken seriously as a proper currency for a developed nation.

I'm not sure singing the praises of how it helps drug users carry out untraced transactions is really an argument for it though?

Bitcoin is a speculative plaything and, as you say, a way for shady transactions to be made with a modicum of anonymity.

Well drug users are one example of a group of people demonised by tyrannical government power, much as homosexuals and black people were in the past, the replacement of state issued currency and tracked transactions significantly weakens the states ability to oppress minority groups in society.

The future is in decentralised currency, nations are becoming less significant as we move to a global society, we live in unprecedented times where the old power structures are crumbling while desperately trying to hold on.

The reality is day by day transactions are slowly moving to cryptocurrency and away from fiat.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Crypto isn't based on any actual substance of value i.e. gold like real currency its relies on a huge number of machines to keep hashing to keep banking stabliity simply a collossal waste of energy generating something out of thin air

most mining on a mass scale are purposely built near a renewable energy source.
where they can purchase excess energy for cheap, you realise most renewable energy can't be stored right? they can't just plant a mountain of batteries.

yea some of them use the excess energy to pump water into a reservoir then use that water to power turbines as needed but it's not the standard.

most renwables are pumping out their peak energy during offpeak hours when no one needs it.

if some company can make use of this energy and help make renewable energy more profitable and speed up the amount of money invested in renewable and energy storage then is it really a bad thing?

These bitcoin farms aren't necessarily working constantly, they will be turned on and off depending on the price of energy, they won't be on some fixed tariff they are buying at the source the excess.

Terrible waste of GPUs though

Is that why they build crypto farms in places like Iceland or Greenland where they can rely on nature to keep the whole thing from going into meltdown?!

The hubris of it all is staggering.

 

[Jono8]

The reality is day by day transactions are slowly moving to cryptocurrency and away from fiat.

Um...what?

 

[mmj_uk]

The reality is day by day transactions are slowly moving to cryptocurrency and away from fiat.

What happens if there's a power cut or the internet goes or is taken down? however did drug users manage to buy their drugs privately before crypto was invented?

 

[Tefal]

Crypto isn't based on any actual substance of value i.e. gold like real currency

Ummmmm

 

[Tefal]

Um...what?

From my limited understanding its more the back end of banking that's moving over.

No one cares about end user transactions ie you and me and our grocery shop. The market being targeted is banks moving billions amongst themselves or internally between thier different countries where its aiming to have lower fees and costs than moving and changing between Currencies. And where it can be used to collect large number of small fiat transactions into huge blocks of crypto to save costs


The current swift system moves 150 trillion dollars a year, you can see how even a tiny % of that as a fee represents a huge market or saving


Plus the open ledgers make a lot of security, as transactions can be tracked by all and anyone. (The "anonymity" atm comes from the acounts initaly not needing ID, the government can track every wallet that say sent money to a cartel wallet for drugs but thw wallet doesn't have your name, but if you've already been caught not the hardest thing to link)

 

[FoxEye]

From my limited understanding its more the back end of banking that's moving over.

Source?

There's absolutely no reason for that to happen. Existing back-end systems are like 10,000x more efficient than any blockchain implementation.

It's almost like we've had electronic banking for decades and it's a solved problem... Any new solution that comes along would have to be more efficient to be adopted, not fantastically less efficient.

 

[Tefal]

Source?

There's absolutely no reason for that to happen. Existing back-end systems are like 10,000x more efficient than any blockchain implementation.

It's almost like we've had electronic banking for decades and it's a solved problem... Any new solution that comes along would have to be more efficient to be adopted, not fantastically less efficient.

Google it there's too any to list

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilym...inspired-currency-using-jp-morgan-technology/

https://www.coindesk.com/ripple-payments-national-bank-egypt-uae

https://www.ft.com/content/eec2ffb3-73f4-4397-b6bf-58c60fc8a8a7

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...grate-crypto-into-global-banking-is-real.html


It's not so much about efficency it's about single currency and avoiding the need and losses in constant swaps

At the moment it's very much inthe "new standard now there's n+1 standards" comic strip territory though

 

[FoxEye]

Well it kind of has to be about efficiency. The fiat systems, much derided by the crypto-bros, handle millions of transactions per second.

There was a stat I read recently, that if the whole world changed to blockchain tech, we'd need to quadruple our global energy production, just for blockchain transactions. That was talking about PoW blockchain, I'm aware that other types exist.

But even non-PoW blockchain is less efficient than the systems already in use. That's important when you want to scale up from being a niche hobbyist toy, to a global financial system used by the whole world.

 

[nine_tails]

What happens if there's a power cut or the internet goes or is taken down? however did drug users manage to buy their drugs privately before crypto was invented?

We have bigger problems than worrying about how bitcoin works at that point.

 

[nine_tails]

Well it kind of has to be about efficiency. The fiat systems, much derided by the crypto-bros, handle millions of transactions per second.

There was a stat I read recently, that if the whole world changed to blockchain tech, we'd need to quadruple our global energy production, just for blockchain transactions. That was talking about PoW blockchain, I'm aware that other types exist.

But even non-PoW blockchain is less efficient than the systems already in use. That's important when you want to scale up from being a niche hobbyist toy, to a global financial system used by the whole world.

PoW is largely going to be bitcoin only as any low hash power chain gets attacked and killed. PoS is miles better at energy consumption.

Regarding trade off's , most CBDC's are designed with blockchain as base layer , so while 100000x may be a great stat, there obviously are advantages in regards to settlement

 

[Energize]

Um...what?

The Darknet just as one example now handles millions of transactions that were previously taking place in fiat currency.

What happens if there's a power cut or the internet goes or is taken down? however did drug users manage to buy their drugs privately before crypto was invented?

Same thing that happens when there's a power cut and your online banking goes down or there's a network problem that takes the atm system out?

Before crypto was invented people risked encountering police officers or dodgy drug dealers etc now people are doing transactions anonymously with escrow via Monero.

 

[Tefal]

Well it kind of has to be about efficiency. The fiat systems, much derided by the crypto-bros, handle millions of transactions per second.

There was a stat I read recently, that if the whole world changed to blockchain tech, we'd need to quadruple our global energy production, just for blockchain transactions. That was talking about PoW blockchain, I'm aware that other types exist.

But even non-PoW blockchain is less efficient than the systems already in use. That's important when you want to scale up from being a niche hobbyist toy, to a global financial system used by the whole world.

That's based on bitcoin which is nothing like anything the banks are looking at.

They just want open ledgers etc.

All the mining side/pow/pos etc they couldn't give a **** about.

What they want is a big back end currency usable everywhere with no 3rd party needed no government needed no exchange needed


Think of bitcoin like the Hummer its a car sure but it's not representative of the whole market or what the majority want

 

[Energize]

Think of bitcoin like the Hummer its a car sure but it's not representative of the whole market or what the majority want

Exactly, that's one the brilliant things about cryptocurrencies, markets and consumer groups can have their own currencies tailored to their particular needs.

We've seen this with Monero becoming the dominant currency on the darknet markets due to privacy features, but local communities could have their own digital currencies as well. In the past these local money schemes had poor uptake because they couldn't be exchanged with government issued money but that could change now we're in the era of smartphones with multi currency wallets and contactless.

Ummmmm

Exactly, most people that attack crypto as "made up money" seem to believe we have some sort of representative currency.

Newsflash people, Britain left the gold standard 90 years ago!

 

[Nasher]

All that energy to "mine" imaginary currency

 

[Psycho Sonny]

From my limited understanding its more the back end of banking that's moving over.

No one cares about end user transactions ie you and me and our grocery shop. The market being targeted is banks moving billions amongst themselves or internally between thier different countries where its aiming to have lower fees and costs than moving and changing between Currencies. And where it can be used to collect large number of small fiat transactions into huge blocks of crypto to save costs


The current swift system moves 150 trillion dollars a year, you can see how even a tiny % of that as a fee represents a huge market or saving


Plus the open ledgers make a lot of security, as transactions can be tracked by all and anyone. (The "anonymity" atm comes from the acounts initaly not needing ID, the government can track every wallet that say sent money to a cartel wallet for drugs but thw wallet doesn't have your name, but if you've already been caught not the hardest thing to link)

Yet fees on crypto are higher than ever before.

It costs £30 to move £50 worth of Ethereum at times. Meaning you are left with £20.

 

[Tefal]

Yet fees on crypto are higher than ever before.

It costs £30 to move £50 worth of Ethereum at times.

I suppose that's why the banks are making their own not using the existing ones.

How do those fees scale? Like how much does it cost to move 1billion?

 

[Tefal]

Oh sorry it seems was wildly outdated with the swift statement

According to the US Treasury Department, the SWIFT international payment network handles more than $1.25 quadrillion dollars per annum, CHIPS transfers $400 trillion dollars, while Fedwire moves $900 trillion