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Chinese foreign investment

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by sedm1000, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. sedm1000

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  2. scorza

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    If China starts bankrolling corrupt and brutal regimes like that of Sudan in exchange for oil and minerals then we, the west, must take a lot of the responsibility since these oils and minerals are used in the production of the things we consume from China.

    I don't wan't my country to trade with morally bankrupt regimes, and there aren't many countries more morally bankrupt than China.
     
  3. sedm1000

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    Even the US of A?
     
  4. KingOfAquitaine

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    meh....

    So africa is exploited by someone who isn't America or europe.

    If looking purely on objective terms its a great move by China. They're gaining influence the good ol' fashioned way with money in a time where dealing with corrupt regimes is bad politically in europe, and no one likes america.

    Well played China
     
  5. scorza

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    No country's perfect, but nothing like this has happened there as far as I know. Its pretty sickening when our own leaders who claim to be big supporters of human rights are prepared to dismiss Tianamen square as a mere disturbance on a par with the poll tax riots.
     
  6. anarchist

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    Absolutely. There is no moral highground to be had here. China are just going to start exploiting the same people that we (and others) are currently exploiting, and for the same reasons, i.e. purely economic.

    The only way to protest is vote with your feet. Buy more local goods, fair trade etc. etc. Hit the exploitative corporations where it hurts :)
     
  7. i know nothing

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    The Chinese are more concerned with economics. Even with their present boom you still have 60% of them earning around US$2 per day. Many Chinese who have not benefitted from this economic 'leap forward' are dissatisfied with the current situation and the ruling elite are aware of it. If China wishes to maintain the current level of growth they will need the resources to sustain it. They will do just about anything to get what they want, they're happy to bribe officials in other countries, they couldn't give a toss about human rights or any such thing, all they care about is getting the goods. The only way they can get any degree of assurance that they will get what they want is to pursue aggressive energy security policies to fuel their huge appetite for fuel.

    All we (the west) care about is making sure that we pay as little as possible for consumer goods, sure we pay lip service to human rights etc, but when we visit B&Q or Tesco's we vote with our wallets and buy the cheap goods from China which have been manufactured using questionably procured raw materials from other countries. It was recently reported (I believe I read this in The Economist) that the US govt. believes 6 million US workers have lost manufacturing jobs because of cheap Chinese imports, does the average American shun Chinese made goods in Walmart? No.

    We've never really invested in Africa, we've thrown money at them through the ridiculous lending policies of the IMF and foreign aid only to see it wasted by corrupt regimes. Take a back seat, let the Chinese take over, let them shoulder some of the responsibility. If they are prepared to put their money where their mouth is, let them.
     
  8. scorza

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    This is why we sometimes need government regulations. When I go shopping I'm usually in a rush and just pick up whatever I want, paying little attention to what country something was made in. Maybe I should pay more attention but I do have my own life to lead too. If there was a big sticker on the front of a packet saying "Made in China." on it I'd avoid buying it.

    There's also the issue of consumer ignorance. Suppose a consumer is adamant that they don't want to buy goods from countries with appalling human rights regimes. If he sees "Made in Myanmar" on the back of a product, should he buy it or not? Will he know that Myanmar is the new name for Burma, a country with one of the worst human rights regimes in the world? I had to look it up on wikipedia before posting here. This is why I'm glad the government has put sanctions on Myanmar, so we can be sure that no one in this country is supporting that regime through trade.
     
  9. i know nothing

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    Scorza, I have to ask you, is there any reason why you picked Myanmar as an example, or was it just a random example?
     
  10. i know nothing

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    The biggest opponents to new labelling laws in the UK which would show the Country of origin often portray themselves as the biggest proponents of such an ammendment, they are of course the supermarkets. There is no food processor (that I know of) who doesn't want to see this. The supermarkets have blocked this for years claiming that their customers don't want it, the truth is they (the supermarkets) don't want it. If they had to label the origin off all their cheap chicken for instance with "produced in Thailand", do you think people would buy it? Maybe one or two wouldn't, but the supermarkets have a point, people vote with their wallets.

    But how do you police world trade and ensure items are labelled properly when I can buy illegal teak logs from Myanmar, ship them across the border into Yunnan province, make them into garden furniture and then sell them to the likes of B&Q as "Made in China"?
     
  11. crashuk

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    Well they are just taking advantage over africa, the chinese know that at some time or other the price of labour will go up, why not move to a cheaper place, with no labur laws etc...
    2) i think goods outside the uk should have an extra tax stamped on them.
     
  12. Sanzy

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    More TAX :o are you crazy do you know how many products we import
     
  13. crashuk

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    tax on good like tvs things like that, this would mean lower income taxes etc..
     
  14. scorza

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    I remember seeing a news article in the UK about (what they called) Burma's human rights problems and I knew that it wasn't officially called that, so it just fit my purposes nicely. I don't claim to be an expert on human rights or the country itself, I just go on the news fed to me.

    I agree that the supermarkets would be the major stakeholder against clearer country of origin labeling, but meh - imo they're too powerful atm anyway and need taking down a peg or two. Not that I think clearer labelling will happen any time soon either.
     
  15. i know nothing

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    Fair enough, it just interested me that you picked Myanmar as an example, as you rightly point out, most people are unaware that Myanmar was "Burma". I agree with your point on consumer ignorance.
     
  16. KingOfAquitaine

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    joking right?

    If we've learned one thing about New Labour, finding some new to never reduces tax anywhere else
     
  17. Mad old tory

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    Taxing imports wouldn't do anyone any good. People would just be forced to buy domestic goods (are there even any TV factories in the UK now? I know there was a Panny one in Wales but i think that shut) at a higher price, meaning inflation goes up...
     
  18. Slam62

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    there are loads of 'foreign' owned manufacturing plants in the uk and they will stay as long as the 'economic environment' encourages it ie they get state/eu aide.

    A lot of people in the uk sit on their high horse assuming everything we do is fair and righteous, unfortunately this is not the case, in order to sustain the western economies we have to plunder the rest of the world, its something we have always done and always will do, if you dont like it you can always give all your wealth to an african orphan, but somehow i dont think you will..
     
  19. robmiller

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    Here's another article about China's involvement in Africa, by Nicholas Kristoff:

    Rather dramatic but a good read.

    Yeah, because all those other times we implemented protectionism it worked perfectly well, right!

    Oh, wait.
     
  20. monkentage

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    So, people here would be happy keeping China's population in poverty because of policies dictated to them by a government they cannot change?