Chip & PIN - same PIN for all your cards?

I have quite a few CC and I find it quite easy to have all the C&P numbers in my mobile phone, inside the 'code memo' facility thingy thats protected by a single passcode. Just usually whip me phone out in the queue and double check my number.
 
Fortunately I can remember my 4 different pins... but to be honest I may well change them all to the same now that I hear it's not likely to land me in trouble or issues. As has been said, if the banks can minimise the chances of people writing down their pins so much the better.

I used to do the following system for remembering my number

Let us say my credit card number is:

1234 5678 9012 3456

I used to take a number from each segment i.e. the 1st of each, 2nd of each... or 4th of 1st, 3rd of 2nd, 2nd of 3rd and 1st of 4th etc...

i.e.:

1234 5678 9012 3456

or


1234 5678 9012 3456

etc....

I thought that was quite a good system really.
 
I have two PIN numbers which I use for everything. Statistically, that means that even if I do use the wrong PIN, I can enter the other one afterwards without fear of locking my card :D
 
I have no problem remembering my three pins, its remembering which card I just inserted, as to which of the pins to enter :p
 
taliesyn said:
Many retailers will not accept signature cards now.
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Big misunderstanding here! All retailers will (and indeed must) continue to accept chip and signature cards indefinately. These are cards that are given to customers who are unable to use a PIN number, for example through disability. However, most banks won't give them to someone just because they ask, and anyone asking for one for no reason is being completely daft, for everyone involved a PIN number is the most sensible, secure and quick way of paying.
 
I use the same PIN for all of my cards and I always have. If they go missing, then I call the bank as soon as I realise.
I don't see why it would be a problem for anyone, as you ARE liable for anything if your PIN is written down (be it in a phone, diary, purse, anywhere). It's not difficult to keep it covered, and the only situations you could be in where the PIN would, by no fault of your own, be compromised, would only affect one card.
 
PinkPig said:
Big misunderstanding here! All retailers will (and indeed must) continue to accept chip and signature cards indefinately. These are cards that are given to customers who are unable to use a PIN number, for example through disability. However, most banks won't give them to someone just because they ask, and anyone asking for one for no reason is being completely daft, for everyone involved a PIN number is the most sensible, secure and quick way of paying.
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It is still entirely up to the discretion of the retailer. There is no must about it.

Obviously you are not allowed to discriminate against race or disability, as that is illegal, but it is still entirely up to the retailer at the end of the day.

In the same way, a retailer does not have to sell you something just because you offer to pay for it. There is no obligation involved.
 
taliesyn said:
It is still entirely up to the discretion of the retailer. There is no must about it.

Obviously you are not allowed to discriminate in any way, as that is illegal, but it is still up to the retailer at the end of the day.

In the same way, a retailer does not have to sell you something just because you offer to pay for it. There is no obligation involved.
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Fair enough, but no retailer in their right mind will refuse to accept a chip and signature card, anyone working in the shop who refuses such a card is almost certainly misinformed. The shop has no reason not to accept the chip and signature card, the retailer has the same protection with them as they always have done, and refusing to accept one would probably be seen as discrimination after all. It's a signature on a chip and PIN card, which is another thing entirely, that most places won't accept anymore.
 
PinkPig said:
Fair enough, but no retailer in their right mind will refuse to accept a chip and signature card, anyone working in the shop who refuses such a card is almost certainly misinformed. The shop has no reason not to accept the chip and signature card, the retailer has the same protection with them as they always have done, and refusing to accept one would probably be seen as discrimination after all. It's a signature on a chip and PIN card, which is another thing entirely, that most places won't accept anymore.
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That's exactly the point though. With a chip & signature card the retailer has no protection against fraud whatsoever (and never has done).

Chip and Pin + Fraud - Customer repaid, bank or card issuer loses the money. Retailer retains the money for the goods.

Chip and Signature + Fraud - Retailer loses the goods and has to repay the money to the card issuer. Customer repaid.

So whilst the customer has the same level of protection either way, the retailer does not.
 
I know it's already been said but you'd be covered fine by the bank no matter what your PIN is. It's just as long as you don't do something silly with it like give it out or write it down.

In regards to my PIN I usually remember it was a word. Like two 00's then my intials. Much easier to remember for me compared to a number.
 
PinkPig said:
Fair enough, but no retailer in their right mind will refuse to accept a chip and signature card, anyone working in the shop who refuses such a card is almost certainly misinformed. The shop has no reason not to accept the chip and signature card, the retailer has the same protection with them as they always have done, and refusing to accept one would probably be seen as discrimination after all. It's a signature on a chip and PIN card, which is another thing entirely, that most places won't accept anymore.
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That's a rather naieve assumption, as many cloned cards will be chip and signature. Still think that every one should be accepted?
 
Is the pin the same one you use to log into ATMs etc? I never use my cards in stores (usually have cash) so have never really needed to know :D.
 
taliesyn said:
That's exactly the point though. With a chip & signature card the retailer has no protection against fraud whatsoever (and never has done).

Chip and Pin + Fraud - Customer repaid, bank or card issuer loses the money. Retailer retains the money for the goods.

Chip and Signature + Fraud - Retailer loses the goods and has to repay the money to the card issuer. Customer repaid.

So whilst the customer has the same level of protection either way, the retailer does not.
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A chip and Sig card is not the same as a chip and pin card, and a true chip and sig card does offer the retailer the same benefits as they are issued specifically by the bank and authorised by the terminal for signature.

The retailer is only responsible for fraud if they specifically override the PIN request to allow a signature to be entered.

www.chipandpin.co.uk and follow the link for retailers (it's a PDF link)
 
with respect to the chip and signature card I'm glad some people cleared up the confusion. I's exactly the same as a chip and pin, but instead of pin it's a signature..

As for signature cards, if your bank still hasn't issued you with a chip card, retailers can still use old signature cards by 'overriding the system' the same way they overide the system by typing in your card number when the magstripe doesn't read.

You'll note that all the info says 'must use your pin, when using your CHIP & PIN card' This is irrelavent to me, as I have a photocard, no a chip + pin, which Royal Bank of Scotland sees no need to issue me until my card runs out which will be another few months. At which point i'll probably ditch using switch. Or Ill get a chip + signature card, (which RBS will issue me upon request)
 
Some people still seem confused here.

A "New Chip and Sigature card" is something issued recently, gives both the retailer and the customer exactly the same protection as a new Chip and PIN card, is issued primarily to customers who have a disability preventing them from entering a PIN number. Cloning a chip is pretty difficult as far as I'm aware - but that's the bank's problem. A chip and signature card is not the same as an old card without a chip that could be used in a magnetic stripe reader (except in shops who choose not to use chip and PIN equipment), and it's not the same as the retailer choosing (at their own risk) to override the PIN number on a chip and PIN card.

Whitecrock - what do you have against PIN numbers? I don't know what the bank's policy is, but my opinion is that they should only give chip and signature cards out where there's a genuine reason for needing one, otherwise the security of the whole system is undermined if a sizeable number of people still hold cards that can be used with a signature.

Incidentally, the position in just about every retailer in the country at the moment is that a card with no chip can still be used as a signature card (mainly for foreign cards), a card with a chip will be put through the system and if it's recognised as a signature card (either newly issued or an older chip card) then a signature will be requested, if it's recognised as a PIN card then a PIN number will be required. The change on the 14th February was that, on cards that do have a PIN number, the retailer will now take the responsibility for overriding it and allowing a signature. Hence most choose not to do so. On any card which doesn't allow for a PIN number (ie. anything that's not a chip and PIN card) then the retailer can still accept a signature just as they have in the past.
 
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PinkPig said:
Big misunderstanding here! All retailers will (and indeed must) continue to accept chip and signature cards indefinately. These are cards that are given to customers who are unable to use a PIN number, for example through disability. However, most banks won't give them to someone just because they ask, and anyone asking for one for no reason is being completely daft, for everyone involved a PIN number is the most sensible, secure and quick way of paying.
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correct.

The basic ruling is:

Where applicable, Chip&Pin must be used. However, the individual retailer can choose to use either (hence why chip&pin machines have an in-biult override for signature use).

The only difference being the liability. From February 14th, every retailer who chooses to use Chip&Signature also takes responsibilty for the transaction, and is liable for the cost if card fraud occurs.

The only real change is who is responsible for transactions :)
 
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