Civic Type R's (EP3's), trying to find out about them
- Thread starter Stormster
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That's a lie I have a FN2
Wanted an EP3 for years but test drove an Fn2 and EP3 Premier Edition back to back on the same day/roads and preferred the FN2. I enjoy the car so much I still have it, coming upto 4 years old in Apil 
But the addition of the supercharger, etc was the main reason for keeping it and not getting a Focus RS.
Soldato
That's a lie I have a FN2
Odd. I guess it wasn't a twisty b-road?
Same engine, worse chassis, heavier, uglier?
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I have a 54 reg Milano Red Type R and love it to bits.
Never had any issues with steering racks and the other common faults. Maybe these were pre facelift faults?
Civic > Clio in every way apart from price maybe
Never had any issues with steering racks and the other common faults. Maybe these were pre facelift faults?
Civic > Clio in every way apart from price maybe
Thanks for the replies So not a lot to worry about then all in all.
But good question about the facelift differences, I seem to recall a 5th gear review by Tiff and he said it just felt the same anyway, but I guess the main differences are the front end looks (bumper, lights - which are nicer obviously) and the rear lights (which I'm unsure about, but the pre-facelift ones look bog standard model stylee aswell so can't win!)
All in all they sound solid then, are they prone for suspension bushes and the like? And engine/gearbox mounts? I don't want a full on racer so would be thinking good brand springs, full exhaust, induction, and maybe a bush refresh for OEM stuff (roads are bit too solid for polybushed I feel) - that'd probably do me. I'd be changing the audio as you're right, they are rubbish standard, my mates was as described - was hugely unimpressed!
Is the rack issue easy to notice when driving? My friend said one of his pals had an issue and it had a "dry spot" where it got notchy and heavy then got through it the more you locked over, is that the kinda thing I'm looking for?
I guess gearbox problems would be quite obvious too.
The oil thing and them drinking it... is there any way I can tell if it's previously been ran too low? All too easy fill it up when up for sale I guess.
So they're cam-chain driven, do these ever have to be changed? Or just checked for issues as Dup says above?
Interior rattles. Well I drive a MK4 Golf, I am 100% certain it will be better! My car is SHOCKING. But it just passed it's MOT today so I will give it it's due Opportune time to advertise it for sale however!
Dave18, I think the price has certainly gone up a bit... for 5k I would like an 04 plate facelift at least... but I would actually spend less on a tidy pre-facelift on sensible milage and leave myself some cash for a few choice mods I guess, afterall they're all the same car
DC2's are epic but overpriced and I'm 30 soon, I need it to be a little more practical, but they are very nice cars, been in a few and LOVE that old school vtec kick up the ass!
Thanks everyone
So not a lot to worry about then all in all.But good question about the facelift differences, I seem to recall a 5th gear review by Tiff and he said it just felt the same anyway, but I guess the main differences are the front end looks (bumper, lights - which are nicer obviously) and the rear lights (which I'm unsure about, but the pre-facelift ones look bog standard model stylee aswell so can't win!
)All in all they sound solid then, are they prone for suspension bushes and the like? And engine/gearbox mounts? I don't want a full on racer so would be thinking good brand springs, full exhaust, induction, and maybe a bush refresh for OEM stuff (roads are bit too solid for polybushed I feel) - that'd probably do me. I'd be changing the audio as you're right, they are rubbish standard, my mates was as described - was hugely unimpressed!
Is the rack issue easy to notice when driving? My friend said one of his pals had an issue and it had a "dry spot" where it got notchy and heavy then got through it the more you locked over, is that the kinda thing I'm looking for?
I guess gearbox problems would be quite obvious too.
The oil thing and them drinking it... is there any way I can tell if it's previously been ran too low? All too easy fill it up when up for sale I guess.
So they're cam-chain driven, do these ever have to be changed? Or just checked for issues as Dup says above?
Interior rattles. Well I drive a MK4 Golf, I am 100% certain it will be better! My car is SHOCKING. But it just passed it's MOT today so I will give it it's due
Opportune time to advertise it for sale however!Dave18, I think the price has certainly gone up a bit... for 5k I would like an 04 plate facelift at least... but I would actually spend less on a tidy pre-facelift on sensible milage and leave myself some cash for a few choice mods I guess, afterall they're all the same car
DC2's are epic but overpriced and I'm 30 soon, I need it to be a little more practical, but they are very nice cars, been in a few and LOVE that old school vtec kick up the ass!
Thanks everyone
I wouldn't say it was worth upgrading the exhaust/intake system on an Ep3/DC2 as the engines already put out plenty of power, the gains returned for your hard earned will be minimal.
Polybushes are fine, run them on mine and they just help maintain the geometry better, you can make the ride comfortable enough with adjustable dampers. Mine is much better now I have turned the bound/rebound down to soft levels.
Not to know, but after a good run, go up through the gears changing at peak RPM in VTEC and check for blue smoke out the back.
They don't all drink oil, mine isn't too bad at all.
DC2 is belt not sure about the EP3.
Interior rattles. Well I drive a MK4 Golf, I am 100% certain it will be better! My car is SHOCKING. But it just passed it's MOT today so I will give it it's due
Dave18, I think the price has certainly gone up a bit... for 5k I would like an 04 plate facelift at least... but I would actually spend less on a tidy pre-facelift on sensible milage and leave myself some cash for a few choice mods I guess, afterall they're all the same car
There are rattles and creaks, but the joy of these cars is that it is soo easy to identify each one
DC2 is an awful lot more practical than you realise, with the seats folded down the rear can fit an awful lot in, plenty of space for multiple bodies. I fitted in a whole front bumper without having to move the front seats at all.
Plus the DC2s are a lot less common and don't have the chav image of EP3s. Plus insurance will most likely be a lot better, I pay £270 for a limited mileage classic policy, but my best proper quote inc like for like mods was £530 (I'm 25, garaged, 8yrs no claims).
Dirty picture of mine at the bottom of the link, along with a scufffed up old bumper: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53188&page=311
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Soldato
yea as per Dups post re: timing chain, doesn't need changing, ever.
I've read about the chain stretching but I think it's a rarity.
I've read about the chain stretching but I think it's a rarity.
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Thanks chaps, ah nice bit of cost avoided there lol, how are the waterpumps ran etc? Not massively mechanically minded so you'll have to forgive me
Ad it does seem like everything mod-wise is EXPENSIVE for these Honda's But I'd probably change the induction/exhaust side of things for noise... try drop on a second hand manifold etc, we'll see. It seems some peeps are getting around 210-220BHP with a full exhaust and induction kit from a quick google? Still quite an outlay for the gains...
Ta for the blue smoke info I'm quite excited to go test drive one haha, seems a bit un-natural ragging it to death but no doubt fun.
The main thing which puts me off the DC2's is value for money, in terms of the cars age... but I think the EP3 being a bit more civilised would suit me a little more. But like your car mate, followed your thread with suspension refresh etc
Ad it does seem like everything mod-wise is EXPENSIVE for these Honda's
But I'd probably change the induction/exhaust side of things for noise... try drop on a second hand manifold etc, we'll see. It seems some peeps are getting around 210-220BHP with a full exhaust and induction kit from a quick google? Still quite an outlay for the gains...Ta for the blue smoke info
I'm quite excited to go test drive one haha, seems a bit un-natural ragging it to death but no doubt fun.The main thing which puts me off the DC2's is value for money, in terms of the cars age... but I think the EP3 being a bit more civilised would suit me a little more. But like your car mate, followed your thread with suspension refresh etc
It was a very twisty b-road as I used to live in the countryside.
Its not exactly the same engine and in factory trim most are dyno-ing (on the same dynos) with about 10bhp more due to better factory tune, lower VTEC engagment point without the drop in power prior to VTEC, shorter gear ratios and less drag compensate for the weight...in the real world it's down to which driver is faster. As for worse chassis I assume you mean suspension, yet on all indepent tests (except Top Gears test) the FN2 has pretty much the same cornering speed as the EP3
Yes its heavier but it has a lot more kit, is safer and in my opinion better looking (especially with selected Mugen parts).[/QUOTE]
Ad it does seem like everything mod-wise is EXPENSIVE for these Honda's
That is very true, but best mod hands down is a LSD. Also you need to be careful which induction kit you get and its best to get the car remapped with your mods to get the best gains.
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It was a very twisty b-road as I used to live in the countryside.
Its not exactly the same engine and in factory trim most are dyno-ing (on the same dynos) with about 10bhp more due to better factory tune, lower VTEC engagment point without the drop in power prior to VTEC, shorter gear ratios and less drag compensate for the weight...in the real world it's down to which driver is faster. As for worse chassis I assume you mean suspension, yet on all indepent tests (except Top Gears test) the FN2 has pretty much the same cornering speed as the EP3
Yes its heavier but it has a lot more kit, is safer and in my opinion better looking (especially with selected Mugen parts).
Good post. A lot of people think that Top Gear is the gospel, the quality of review of the car on there was nothing short of shocking.
T
Ad it does seem like everything mod-wise is EXPENSIVE for these Honda's
Expensive with little gains and you STILL consider them
Leave the engine be or maybe get another induction kit if you want better sound. I don't care that I have lost some mid-rnage with the Injen that came with the car, the sound it gives more than makes up for it.
These cars also don't need to be modified that much!!!! Uprated brakes and better suspensionw tih a good fast road setup will be more than eough to keep anyone happy
They're very chuckable as standard, and surprisingly well behaved and understated when you're just pootling about. Plenty of boot space too and room for passengers.
I must say I've had mine for several years after having come from a Skyline and I still enjoy driving it.
I must say I've had mine for several years after having come from a Skyline and I still enjoy driving it.
They do sound a fun, good all rounder
I would just want some noise I guess more so than power haha I'm sad like that.
I would just want some noise I guess more so than power haha
I'm sad like that.
A quick query or 3 about tuning
What are the most common mods on these cars to get them to say 230-240BHP and how is the drive affected, especially interested in how people go about gaining a bit more poke lower down the revs but have it still pulling like a trooper at the top.
I ain't sure of makes but am guessing a full exhaust inc sports cat and manifold - if so what diameter bore are folks using?
What about induction setups?
And also, mapping/chipping? Unichip seems to crop up a lot, are these better value than kpro? I don't know a lot about it all fully but wondering of how effective the "simple" mods are but also the cost of them.
Ta
What are the most common mods on these cars to get them to say 230-240BHP and how is the drive affected, especially interested in how people go about gaining a bit more poke lower down the revs but have it still pulling like a trooper at the top.
I ain't sure of makes but am guessing a full exhaust inc sports cat and manifold - if so what diameter bore are folks using?
What about induction setups?
And also, mapping/chipping? Unichip seems to crop up a lot, are these better value than kpro? I don't know a lot about it all fully but wondering of how effective the "simple" mods are but also the cost of them.
Ta
Soldato
Be careful changing the intake, Honda stock ones are usually very good, changing to a poor after market one could see you lose some power.
Soldato
Intake; don't go open cone. The best intakes are the Gruppe M (semi-open, not made anymore, costs £400+ second hand although there is a replica available I believe) and ITG intake which again is £400+. Gruppe M sounds amazing, ITG is more closed and a bit quieter but works just as well. Anything else is just for sound really.
Exhaust; DC sports, Toda, Spoon. Looking at £1k for a full system. You cannot change the manifold or add a decat without remapping. Will run too rich otherwise.
ECU; Dastek (no longer made?), K100, Kpro. Kpro is the daddy, £700+ second hand. K100 is it's little brother however is more restrictive on how it is mapped I believe.
All of the above should see you at ~240bhp. Normally the VTEC change over is dropped lower in the revs so you get less of a kick, but you have more torque and the mid range dip the standard car has is eliminated. Changes the cars driving characteristic quite a bit whilst revving a little bit higher.
Is it worth it? In my opinion, not really. I've driven with similar specced cars in my standard EP3 and they had nothing on me, although I've a bit "nuts" when committing to a corner I suppose. In my opinion, do the Hondata airbox mod and change the air feed to sit right behind the grille and get a second hand cat-back or backbox just for the sound. I'd only go for the fully mapped route if I could get all the parts cheap second hand. the good thing is the bits keep their value very well if you come to sell on.
Exhaust; DC sports, Toda, Spoon. Looking at £1k for a full system. You cannot change the manifold or add a decat without remapping. Will run too rich otherwise.
ECU; Dastek (no longer made?), K100, Kpro. Kpro is the daddy, £700+ second hand. K100 is it's little brother however is more restrictive on how it is mapped I believe.
All of the above should see you at ~240bhp. Normally the VTEC change over is dropped lower in the revs so you get less of a kick, but you have more torque and the mid range dip the standard car has is eliminated. Changes the cars driving characteristic quite a bit whilst revving a little bit higher.
Is it worth it? In my opinion, not really. I've driven with similar specced cars in my standard EP3 and they had nothing on me, although I've a bit "nuts" when committing to a corner I suppose. In my opinion, do the Hondata airbox mod and change the air feed to sit right behind the grille and get a second hand cat-back or backbox just for the sound. I'd only go for the fully mapped route if I could get all the parts cheap second hand. the good thing is the bits keep their value very well if you come to sell on.
Don
These guys make replica Mugen airboxes for EP3, DC2, DC5 and S2000
http://www.tegiwaimports.com/eshop/store/eshop_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=151
Sound awesome and more bhp
http://www.tegiwaimports.com/eshop/store/eshop_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=151
Sound awesome and more bhp
Associate
TEGIWA have the best **** for the money , carbon airbox, and a toda copy header, that will cost you about £700.
Then just an RBC and any 2.5'' cat-back exhaust and then a tune on a k100 will have you making 245-250HP, and more fuel efficient than standard.
The cars feel awesome at this level, you will be giving 280HP+ cars a run for their money with the power/weight and gearing on the EP3.
K-100 supplied and tuned is £810, RBC kit can be had on ebay for about £250 ish, then just whatever exhaust you like the look/sound of.
Then just an RBC and any 2.5'' cat-back exhaust and then a tune on a k100 will have you making 245-250HP, and more fuel efficient than standard.
The cars feel awesome at this level, you will be giving 280HP+ cars a run for their money with the power/weight and gearing on the EP3.
K-100 supplied and tuned is £810, RBC kit can be had on ebay for about £250 ish, then just whatever exhaust you like the look/sound of.