Civic Type R's (EP3's), trying to find out about them
- Thread starter Stormster
- Start date
Don
Have to say, the airbox is spot on..
Agree with you on that, would love one myself.
But something like the mani would be worth thinking long and hard about. Even good copies are still just copies and everything that comes with that has to be factored into your decision
Associate
Supercharger! & LSD
http://www.tts-performance.com/civicsupercharged.php?PHPSESSID=baee76a8289e96312fe1506848b14fea
On a serious note anything more than an air box spoils the car imo.
Going back to your original question ive got a 05 CRT with 63k on the clock, and in the 3 yrs I’ve owned it the only thing ive had go wrong is a rear brake calliper which needed replacing.
Servicing costs aint cheap if you want to keep a FHSH. Just been quoted £475 for a major service, but I wouldn’t buy a car like this without FHSH however some specialists are very good.
Realistic MPG 20-30 however when I was working away and just doing a round trip of 150miles once a week for 4 months I averaged 37.3mpg.
Lack of torque is not as bad as some people say and often over hyped. Only time you notice it badly is when you have a car full. Friend of mine who drive a new s3 and lays into with endless torque jokes, drove my car and had to admit it aint that bad. Who cares we got vtec.
Apart from the rattly windows when partially open and dodgy 2nd gear when cold I can’t fault it.
http://www.tts-performance.com/civicsupercharged.php?PHPSESSID=baee76a8289e96312fe1506848b14fea
On a serious note anything more than an air box spoils the car imo.
Going back to your original question ive got a 05 CRT with 63k on the clock, and in the 3 yrs I’ve owned it the only thing ive had go wrong is a rear brake calliper which needed replacing.
Servicing costs aint cheap if you want to keep a FHSH. Just been quoted £475 for a major service, but I wouldn’t buy a car like this without FHSH however some specialists are very good.
Realistic MPG 20-30 however when I was working away and just doing a round trip of 150miles once a week for 4 months I averaged 37.3mpg.
Lack of torque is not as bad as some people say and often over hyped. Only time you notice it badly is when you have a car full. Friend of mine who drive a new s3 and lays into with endless torque jokes, drove my car and had to admit it aint that bad. Who cares we got vtec.
Apart from the rattly windows when partially open and dodgy 2nd gear when cold I can’t fault it.
Its not exactly the same engine and in factory trim most are dyno-ing (on the same dynos) with about 10bhp more due to better factory tune, lower VTEC engagment point without the drop in power prior to VTEC, shorter gear ratios and less drag compensate for the weight...in the real world it's down to which driver is faster. As for worse chassis I assume you mean suspension, yet on all indepent tests (except Top Gears test) the FN2 has pretty much the same cornering speed as the EP3
Yes its heavier but it has a lot more kit, is safer and in my opinion better looking (especially with selected Mugen parts).
I've owned two EP3's, a DC5, an CH1 (Accord R in case you don't know what a CH1 is) and now a DC2. I have driven a number of FN2's (my ex had one, I had one as a courtesy car, test drove a few, tracked a few including the CW edition and also drove the Mugen for half a day pre production). I have also driven an FD2 quite often.
IMO, the FN2 is gash, and I'd challenge you to try and keep up with me in my stock DC2 which has done 130k miles and on crap tyres on a track or even a B road point to point. You won't be able to. If I were in my CH1 you wouldn't be able to and you wouldn't be able to in the others either.
They are heavy, they suffer from chronic understeer, they feel heavy, there is next to no steering feel, they suffer from snap oversteer like the EP3, the TC interferes with throttle control and on the version with the LSD, the TC interferes with the LSD. What is the point in that?
The FN2 is a great car for the masses, but in terms for a drivers car, it is left wanting and leaves a lot to be desired.
For the OP, find a cherished example that's got good history, they don't go wrong often. Most issues are steering rack, noisy heat shields and as has been mentioned, gear synchro's. Also, have a good listen to the engine. Ones that have been tracked which don't have a baffled sump fitted will develop problems on cylinder 3 and/or 4 (farthest away from oil pump) which could range from big end bearings to jumped teeth on the timing chain. Later issues should be easy to spot and typically throw an EML code.
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Some good info added today, thanks guys - appreciate that.
All in all still sounding like a reliable car. But by christ, some expensive mods! lol, I will take a look on the Tegiwa website tomorrow eve to see what stuff they do if their prices are much cheaper. Ideally they are just down the road too
I couldn't spend over 400 quid on an induction kit, that is mentalist lol. Maybe a 2nd hand Tegiwa one would be a good option. How much power would this add over standard?
Looking at the price of stuff maybe a decent filter and cat back exhaust would be plenty... especially if changing the manifold would mean a remap. What about a new manifold and sports cat? Remap still needed?
Would we be looking 215ish BHP guestimate for the simple filter and cat back mods? Not sure how responsive these engines are What about with manifold also and sports cat if a remap aint needed, say 200 cell cat?
Appreciate your post once again Dup, good info. I think it'd be pretty quick on the boil even with simple mods and it would give me the chance to learn to drive properly at the top of the revs
I am a bit of a steady eddie 80% of the time truth be told.
Can I ask what an RBC is?
Your car sounds yet another good 'un Slackjaw. I think a nice decent mile facelift would be ideal for me, I'd be happier with the front end looks and I like the red interior inserts. Supercharged CTR would be epic!
Thanks also to MilanoChris, I will re-save this thread.
Think thats the lot for questions now, thanks again all.
All in all still sounding like a reliable car. But by christ, some expensive mods! lol, I will take a look on the Tegiwa website tomorrow eve to see what stuff they do if their prices are much cheaper. Ideally they are just down the road too
I couldn't spend over 400 quid on an induction kit, that is mentalist lol. Maybe a 2nd hand Tegiwa one would be a good option. How much power would this add over standard?
Looking at the price of stuff maybe a decent filter and cat back exhaust would be plenty... especially if changing the manifold would mean a remap. What about a new manifold and sports cat? Remap still needed?
Would we be looking 215ish BHP guestimate for the simple filter and cat back mods? Not sure how responsive these engines are
What about with manifold also and sports cat if a remap aint needed, say 200 cell cat?Appreciate your post once again Dup, good info. I think it'd be pretty quick on the boil even with simple mods and it would give me the chance to learn to drive properly at the top of the revs
I am a bit of a steady eddie 80% of the time truth be told.Can I ask what an RBC is?
Your car sounds yet another good 'un Slackjaw. I think a nice decent mile facelift would be ideal for me, I'd be happier with the front end looks and I like the red interior inserts. Supercharged CTR would be epic!
Thanks also to MilanoChris, I will re-save this thread.
Think thats the lot for questions now, thanks again all.
Induction = AEM CAI, can be had for less than £200 and very good for gains
Manifold - if you change the manifold alone you'll be fine, but if you change induction and the exhaust you will need it mapped (K100 mapped is £800ish). Changing the manifold on the K20 is pointless as well unless you get it mapped, the gains are minimal. The engine is very exhaust sensitive.
Bear in mind with a K100/KPro will add around 40bhp mid range as well as improve MPG as it leans out the standard map which is rich as hell. (KPro has USB slot so if you fancy doing data-logging or mapping yourself, waste of money for a normal road user).
Price breakdown
Fast road setup inc springs and rear camber arms - £250 ish with some discount
DC Race header - £400, look for a second hand one, it's 90% as good as the Toda but half the price
AEM CAI - £200
Spoon/Fujitsubo etc exhaust - should be able to pick something up on the forums for cheap - £350 ish
K100 mapped £800
That will see 240bhp and a whole load more mid range, plus, you'll also get 40mpg on the motorway.
Use TDI North as your tuner, they are located in Warrington.
Sign up on my forum and say hello: http://type-r-owners.co.uk
More info than you'd know what to do with on there.
If you stick to just intake and exhaust (waste of time to decat or put manifold on, trust me), expect to see 210-215bhp.
RBC is an inlet manifold made by Honda, it's much better than the UK one, but it's a touch pointless without the car being mapped. It'll push the figure close to 250bhp, but a bit of the front slam panel will need to be shaved for it to dit.
If you can afford the insurance, get a DC5, much better car IMO.
As for the K20Z1 pushing out 10bhp more than a K20A2 in standard form as stated on P1, give me a break, they both put out the same power (well, 1 bhp in it). If they all put out 10bhp more, then honda would sell it as a 208bhp car. All engines are different, and some put out more than others.
Honda put in a weaker oil pump system as according to them "Brits don't check their oil" so the system is designed around that fact over performance also it has weaker con rods.
Manifold - if you change the manifold alone you'll be fine, but if you change induction and the exhaust you will need it mapped (K100 mapped is £800ish). Changing the manifold on the K20 is pointless as well unless you get it mapped, the gains are minimal. The engine is very exhaust sensitive.
Bear in mind with a K100/KPro will add around 40bhp mid range as well as improve MPG as it leans out the standard map which is rich as hell. (KPro has USB slot so if you fancy doing data-logging or mapping yourself, waste of money for a normal road user).
Price breakdown
Fast road setup inc springs and rear camber arms - £250 ish with some discount
DC Race header - £400, look for a second hand one, it's 90% as good as the Toda but half the price
AEM CAI - £200
Spoon/Fujitsubo etc exhaust - should be able to pick something up on the forums for cheap - £350 ish
K100 mapped £800
That will see 240bhp and a whole load more mid range, plus, you'll also get 40mpg on the motorway.
Use TDI North as your tuner, they are located in Warrington.
Sign up on my forum and say hello: http://type-r-owners.co.uk
More info than you'd know what to do with on there.
If you stick to just intake and exhaust (waste of time to decat or put manifold on, trust me), expect to see 210-215bhp.
RBC is an inlet manifold made by Honda, it's much better than the UK one, but it's a touch pointless without the car being mapped. It'll push the figure close to 250bhp, but a bit of the front slam panel will need to be shaved for it to dit.
If you can afford the insurance, get a DC5, much better car IMO.
As for the K20Z1 pushing out 10bhp more than a K20A2 in standard form as stated on P1, give me a break, they both put out the same power (well, 1 bhp in it). If they all put out 10bhp more, then honda would sell it as a 208bhp car. All engines are different, and some put out more than others.
Honda put in a weaker oil pump system as according to them "Brits don't check their oil" so the system is designed around that fact over performance also it has weaker con rods.
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Thanks for the info Chris that is spot on! I will get signed up to the forum for a browse. I guess it may be quite cost effective to spend 500-1000 quid extra on a car if it has those 2 grands worth of mods if I was planning on doing that lot anyway as 2k is a hell of a lot of coin to get 40BHP lol. But alas thanks for the breakdown, really appreciate that, cheers
PS insurance isn't a problem on most things. Just buying the car is
PS insurance isn't a problem on most things. Just buying the car is
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Permabanned
Careful, copies are not guaranteed to be the best quality or fit
I'm pretty sure I recall someone claiming this was a Tegiwa item, IIRC.
Man of Honour
A friend has the one linked in the op but in black (same year) and it's a nice car but when VTEC kicks in it doesn't feel how I imagined it would feel, it didn't make me want to go "VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO!"
Yes I know what a CH1 is and I have driven the EP3, FN2 and FD2. The FN2 for me was the best of all 3 when taking everything into account, the best out of all 3 is the FD2 but when it comes insurance the FD2 is an import and you can't replace its trick tyres which help a lot with its NSX Type-S beating track times. None of them are perfect but the FN2 ticks more boxes for me.
I would love to accept that challenge, loser pays entire cost of track day, fuel, etc
Let me know if your up for it, just to warn you my car is not stock but you still sound very confident that the almighty DC2 will beat a FN2 no matter how tuned a FN2 is. Yet the Mugen M20 FN2 is the fastest hot hatch of the current batch on most tracks (beats Focus RS, Megane R26.R).Don't get me wrong I don't think the FN2 is the best car of all time I was just pointing out the FN2 is not as pointless a car as many make out, fact is with a EP3 or a FN2 on a track or road the driver makes the difference as long as both cars are UK DM spec. I took my car to Brands Hatch when all it was running was Gruppe M, FRS, Coilovers, ECU and Catback and was faster than a DC2, DC5x2, EP3x1. The guy in the UK DM DC2 who had spent £8k at CPL came over to me and was shocked. Likewise one of the DC5s had a lot spent on it at TGM and again was shocked, which pretty much confirms my point about the driver making the difference.
To sum up I agree a stock DC2 will beat a stock FN2 on a track when driven by drivers of equal talent, but when sat on the M25 I would rather have my air con. Also turning off VSA stops it coming on so resolves the LSD issue you mentioned, but I agree it is annoying everytime I get in the car I have to turn it off.
This sums up exactly how I feel about the whole DC2/DC5/EP3/FN2 debate.
At the end of the day, 99% of most owners time in the car will be spent on the commute to work and random boring trips. For these kind of trips, if I had to have one car, I know which car I'd rather be in - the most modern one with climate, cruise control, auto lights/wipers etc etc.
Soldato
Could you hear the VTEC. My cousins both have one, one is stock, the other has an induction and exhaust. And you can hear the crossover very well in that and can feel the "kick in 'y0".
Man of Honour
You can just about hear it but it's not as obvious as one with mods like you've mentioned and doesn't sound as nice as other VTEC engines either (Integra etc). There's definitely no kick, or if there was I didn't feel it 
Soldato
You can just about hear it but it's not as obvious as one with mods like you've mentioned and doesn't sound as nice as other VTEC engines either (Integra etc). There's definitely no kick, or if there was I didn't feel it
It isn't much of a kick, guessing you was expecting a turbo like feel that pulls you back at "warp" neck speeds
Hmmm for someone who claims to know a lot about Hondas you seems to be very biased...for a start the K20Z1 is not found in the FN2, I think you mean the K20Z4.
I know you're a member of CTRO as I recognise your screen name so have a read on this thread with respect to the FN2 power output.
http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=230599
TDI North have documented time and time again FN2s making more power in stock form than the EP3s on their dyno. Their explanation is that the FN2s are better tuned from factory which is why with the Flashpro they find very little gain at the top end when tuning, compared to when they tune EP3s with KPro. At the end of the day 10bhp is not going to make the car a different beast but that's what cold hard facts are showing.
That is true the oil pump is not as good as say the FD2's, but in standard form the oil pump is fine unless you want to take the rev limiter up which is never a good idea on standard internals anyway. Likewise that is also true of the K20A2 in the EP3 as anyone running higher rev limits would always change their oil pump to the S2Ks for example.
Man of Honour
It isn't much of a kick, guessing you was expecting a turbo like feel that pulls you back at "warp" neck speeds
I was expecting a little more really
I've driven a family member's Accord Type-R and that has a noticeable kick as VTEC comes on, the Civic was more muted which I wasn't expecting given the popularity of the meme and Civic combined!
Soldato
I was expecting a little more really
All I know is as soon as my cousins EP3 hits vtec, it's at like 80mph. Same with a friends EK9. I noticed it more in the EP3 then the EK9.
Caporegime
I thought that when riding in a new DC5...however when going in Tims old civic the vtec kick y0 was much better
Soldato
In mine the changeover is very noticeable with a little kick, its not exactly a turbo but you know its happened. Plsu with a decent induction the noise is addictive. I was in a stock one recently and barely even heard it 