Con Lake Con firmed [Warning: AdoredTV]

[Chuk_Chuk]

2 months ago adored released a video regarding base clocks on coffee lake (link)
He has just released a follow up to that.

here is the review in question https://www.computerbase.de/2017-12/medion-erazer-x67015-aldi-gaming-pc-test/

TL DW; I7 in aldi PC scoring lower than expected in cinebench. We may see more/most prebuilt pc and non overclocked PC running close to base clock.

Admittedly its one data (or 2 if you include HP) point, but I don't think OEM's will be going against the official specifications and push them past it. I'm also kind of surprised.

What does everyone else think?

P.S. I gave a fair warning so you can't complain about being tricked to come into a thread discussing AdoredTV's video

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Guys a massive AMD zealot....

Who exactly does he think he's talking to??

Moaning that some **** box medion PC piece of **** has sub par cooling and cheapo components and hence poor performance ..... No ****!!

Back in the real world his enthusiast audience knows that with proper cooling for both that a 8700k is a better choice currently for most consumer workloads vs a slight cheaper 1800x setup.

We can partially thank AMD for pushing Intel to release a hex core consumer chip sooner.

I couldn't see him covering the broken backwards compatibility of the latest AMD graphics card drivers on his YouTube channel.... Can't imagine that he would not be all over it if it was nvidia or Intel in a similar situation ....

I'm not sure how any of that computerbase review proves Adored right, but that's Adored for you.
OEM cheaped out on cooling and power supply so the 8700 TBT can't really boost to the maximum all core boost, that's pretty much all there is to it. I do think Intel should have some stricter guidelines for OEMs so you don't end getting sub-par performance due to OEMs trying to cut corners.

So are you both saying that because enthusiast/pc builders know that you should use proper cooling on CPUs to maintain boost clocks, the low base clock (compared to the max single core frequency) of the 8700 and 8400 is acceptable practise?

I have a 8700 ( non K) and it sticks fast at 4.3ghz on all cores at full load and when not all cores are loaded but still in use, clocks range from 4.4-4.6ghz.

I get exactly the same scores as a stock 8700k in everything with it (within margins of error) .

I built a pc for my nephew with a 8400 and that did everything as advertised as well (3.8ghz on all cores at full load).

What MB and cooling do you use? How long did you test it for?

@gavinh87
Have you not in the past stated that you don't like AdoredTV? Then why are you here (I gave you a warning)? Do you like to torture yourself by watching videos you don't like?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Indeed, but I like to see other people views of him. It seems I am not alone.

If you are looking for like minded people you should go here
link

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I'm saying that no one should buy some **** box medion PC and expect it to perform in the same league as one from a better oem just because they both headline with the same CPU...

The problems not Intel CPU's here but a rubbish oem computers...

Or course Intel are engaged in some marketing BS with lots of talk of 'up to' performance figures and hiding the potential shortcomings of all core boost speeds...

Story is the old Latin phrase.... Caveat emptor

You say its rubbish but that is not strictly true. It runs the CPU as intel intended. It is able to meet the base clock and i'm assuming the single core boost clock. That is all intel state that the CPU needs to do. It is probably able to run it at those clocks all day long without issue. Just because it doesn't run the CPU out of specification (a.k.a overclocks the CPU) doesn't mean its rubbish.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

It runs the CPU within to the bare minimum of the expected standards...

One of the reasons I don't particular rate Ryzen as highly as others currently is because the CPU's have so little OC potential above stock compared to Intel.

Sure you cam take a premium Intel CPU and surround it with the barest minimum quality wise of componentsit will run bit this is rather missing the point.

And medion PC's ARE rubbish... End of

So an OEM should overclock the CPU and therefore void the Intel warranty?
Whats the point in overbuilding/overspeccing a PC? Or did you forget that they need to make profit with each sale.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

He's an AMD zealot proved time and time again with a complete lack of objectivity

I don't think you know what "zealot" means. But even if he was that doesn't discredit the information brought up in this video.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

'A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their ideals'

His ideals are that AMD is the saviour to save us from the evil intel and nvidia whilst ignoring the rubbish AMD has on occasions churned out and the sometimes dodgy treatment it's consumers have faced

Yes because a zealot posts videos like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuchUscHWSw
Oh the irony. You accuse him of being bias and drawing incorrect conclusions and then you yourself go and do the exact same thing.

How do you know he isn't sponsored/paid?

It would be illegal not to disclose it. Considering how much hate he gets someone would have found out by now.

He may not be sponsored by any company but he is totally partisan, biased and un objective....

His commentary needs to be viewed in light of this

He is obviously not wrong pointing out that the is significant variance in the 8700 benchmark scores (due to the inclusion of a poorly built PC or two from cheapo OEM's) but he then goes and draws completely the wrong conclusion because of his biased nature turning it into some Intel conspiracy. That aren't loads of threads on forums like Ocuk with people moaning about multi core boost on chips like the 8700 because it just isn't a problem. You don't even have to but particularly expensive components... Just not buy the cheapest nastiest PC from a OEM like Medion..

Adored just has his usual Intel hating specs on and in his world everything wrong with a PC including an Intel component can most likely be pinned on some sort of machievellian intel plot...

Is the HP OMEN a cheap and nasty PC?

All you've done is engage in character assassination throughout this entire thread while dancing round the issue. The issue being a 20% difference in scores across various reviews on a CPU that is supposedly being run at "stock" speeds (The point that you seem to be missing).
You've been making excuses and blaming everyone else for a problem that is squarely intels fault (Yet to see a good argument as to why it isn't). Intel is offering chips with really low base clocks compared to the CPU max turbo speed which means we get a chip that has wildly different scores depending on set up. Intel choose to set the base clock that low. Intel could have set the base clock higher or they could have released guarantees for per core turbo but they didn't. The original reviewers didn't pick up on this only Adored did (Funny enough Ian cutress gave him props for it https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/918128070023876610).

How about you engage in less Character assassination and actually engage the points that are being made.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

So we can all agree he's not objective in his criticism then? I'm fine with his videos right up until the point people try to claim that he's a good source for a balanced objective assessment of tech issues.

I'm curious. Please point us to a youtuber that has 0 personnal bias and is completely objective, so we can see what stick you are using to measure AdoredTV with.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Its a fallacious argument.... It's the equivalent of the Biblical parable where only the totally blameless person is in a position where they can possibly make any judgement of any other persons action regardless of how egregious the others behavior was and how minor any of their past transgressions were.

No I can't point to a 'perfect' person/ youtuber because as you full well know no such person exists.

Much like the rest of human life the lack of a real 100‰ moral exemplar for a benchmark/ standard does not and should not stop judegements being made.

Its the degree to which I say Adored lacks objectively combined with his defenders who point to things like some of his videos being fairly technically minded in parts therefore believing that this justifies his views which I suggest are often just hyperbole and misrepresentations made from his subjective rather biased assessments that I object to.

Prior to my post, I am not aware mentioning a sliding scale of bias. From what I remember reading they were always black and white statement. Also if we are going to analyse the detail, its not a fallacious argument, because I never said or implied that a person has to be perfect to cast judgement. (Ironically a fallacious argument). I wanted to see who you consider to be a balanced and objective youtuber, because i'm curious as to where 0 is located on your ruler.

Considering your talk about everyone having a bias, i do find your final paragraph to be a little funny.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Don't be ridiculous you asked for a youtuber with 0 personal bias which is definitely, at the bare minimum, an implied request for perfection (when it comes to being completely objective and hence able to cast judgement in the same fashion)

You asked for an impossible standard. A human exemplar (for objective judgement) that doesn't exist

Not being a perfect exemplar in one's self and not being able to point to another person who is does not stop a judgement being made re a third person's objectivity or lack thereof

because I never said or implied that a person has to be perfect to cast judgement.

Your assuming things that haven't been said which is causing you jump to conclusions. Nothing in my previous posts implies a person must be perfect to cast judgement.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

For all those upset by AdoredTV this is a must

https://youtu.be/Uw0ZzA9wTFE

Considering the topic at hand i think it deserves it own thread.

That, yeah that's going to set the AdoredTV haters alight.....

Those that know me know i have been saying the same thing about PcPer for years, their conflict of interests and bias is obvious, i'm glad someone had the guts to call them out.

Well done Jim.

Was it you who mentioned that in a podcastthey where mocking thread ripper for having so many cores?
When i watched this i remember someone bringing it up last year.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Not seen it yet but damn Jim, 30mins of whining about tech press?

Don't watch it, i doubt you would be interested.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

What kind of crowd does he expect to attract with his clickbait videos?

source that says clickbait titles increases the likely hood of attracting people that act in such a manner?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I've only watched the first 2/3 of the video so far so maybe he explicitly tells people to "dogpile" PcPer later on, but so far all he's done is trying to point out differences in approach between AMD issues and nVidia/Intel issues.

From memory the closest he gets is telling people to tell Ryan to chose between Pcper and Shrout Research.