Congestion charge to rise to £25!

[Skyfire]

£25 CC is a farcical ripoff. Stealth tax at best.

Not at all, I would support £100/day. This is a war of attrition and I intend to win

 

[starscream]

As long as live in the same world as China and America none of this eco warrior hug a tree emissions rubbish will make the blindest bit of difference so whats the point?

/me hugs his 231g/km emissions car

Which is why we should be lobbying those countries harder to produce less CO2 emissions and provide an example by doing so ourselves.

At the end of the day it depends on whether people are prepared to make sacrifices to short term conveniences for the good of the planet and ultimately humanity in the long term. Sadly it seems most people are not.

 

[Hades]

yes but you cant deny that these days some people are simply too lazy. The prime example being parents driving their kids to school. I never had this luxury and today even though ive passed my driving test, im only going to get a car when i absolutely have to.

Sorry got to pick up on that point. I used to think the same about parents driving their kids. I am now a parent with two kids and the first will be going to school soon. It's proving just about impossible to find a place in a school in my area so they will probably end up a couple of miles away. Because of the extremely high cost of housing both my wife and I have to work. We have no option.

So please explain to me how we can get the kids to school several miles away, then get back home, then off to work in central London by train withou getting sacked for being late? Not to mention having to get back in time to pick the kids up. Unfortunately it's just not possible without a car. It's nothing to do with being lazy.

Back onto the main topic... this really is just about tax revenue just like everything else. Luckily my below-inflation pay rise will cope with increases like this, along with massive council tax rises, bin charges, etc, etc. It's getting to the stage where I can't afford to live anymore... and I'm on a very decent salary so I shudder to think how someone on a below average salary could make ends meet

 

[PhilthyPhil]

and nearly always must pass through the zone to avoid huge delays.

So the congestion charge works. If there was no congestion charge he would still have no choice but to put up with the huge delays. At least he has the choice of either paying to avoid the delays or suffering through them.

 

[Freefaller]

LOL! You think the CC actually cuts congestion?! It just spreads it around a little... but effectively just leaves other areas worse than before.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Which is why we should be lobbying those countries harder to produce less CO2 emissions and provide an example by doing so ourselves.

But this is a pipe dream, it will never, ever happen. Can you imagine a regieme like China agreeing to any such measures? It would be like telling them that no, they can't enjoy life the same way America has in the last 50 years as a result of their newfound industrial might.

That'll go down well - not.

 

[Deadly Ferret]

So the congestion charge works. If there was no congestion charge he would still have no choice but to put up with the huge delays. At least he has the choice of either paying to avoid the delays or suffering through them.

No no no. Read what I said again. You've misunderstood. The delays I referred to would be caused by him skirting the tax zone to avoid being taxed. If there were no tax, he would still travel through the zone and at the same rate of progress.

 

[PhilthyPhil]

LOL! You think the CC actually cuts congestion?! It just spreads it around a little... but effectively just leaves other areas worse than before.

Obviously it doesn’t get rid of congestion. What it does do is create a zone which you can move through freely(ish) if you are willing/able to pay for that privilege.

 

[Amp34]

Why do people always persist on saying 4x4's are satans spawn? From looking at this topic the first thing that is pointed out about this article is that 4x4's are going to be taxed. Having a closer look at the article and the VCA link it seems (athough I already knew) people carriers and larger cars are as bad if not worse than 4x4's for emissions and also size. What is this pathological hatred of all things 4x4? Admittedly you dont need 4 wheel drive in london but have all these nay sayers ever thought that maybe people bought an x-trail or land rover for the size? Have you ever tried fitting a family of 5 with camping gear or similar in a Mondeo (incidently possibly more polluting)? It wont fit!

Get over your pompous anti snobish "oooh they have a 4x4 they must be rich and nasty" views. Perhaps they need the space and utility of the car they drive! Admittedly there are some people who dont need the size or similar of a 4x4 but still use them. These people would probably end up buying a similar sized car anyway. Its stupid anti snobbish behaviour and needs removing from this society. Being "snobbish" is evil but hating people because you precieve them as being a snob (usually that they may just be better off than you) even if they aren't is perfectly acceptable it seems. It's jealousy plain and simple. Get over yourselves and work harder and get a better job/more pay if you want the same, dont put the people that do down!

\Rant

Incidently both the espace and zafira (those are the only 2 I can be bothered looking at) are in the highest band. Whereas a few 4x4's are in the lower bands.

p.s. Appaling spelling but I can't be bothered to check.

 

[starscream]

But this is a pipe dream, it will never, ever happen. Can you imagine a regieme like China agreeing to any such measures? It would be like telling them that no, they can't enjoy life the same way America has in the last 50 years as a result of their newfound industrial might.

So because another regieme isn't doing the right thing, we shouldn't either? The level of consumption and emissions is totally unsustainable, and it is far better that people prepare for lifestyle changes gradually rather than just wait until it is too late.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So because another regieme isn't doing the right thing, we shouldn't either? The level of consumption and emissions is totally unsustainable, and it is far better that people prepare for lifestyle changes gradually rather than just wait until it is too late.

No, because other regiemes will NEVER do the right thing, any efforts we make to do 'do the right thing' are futile and worthless.

 

[Freefaller]

Obviously it doesn’t get rid of congestion. What it does do is create a zone which you can move through freely(ish) if you are willing/able to pay for that privilege.

The problem is getting to this free(ish) zone now.

Personally I think it's an ill conceived idea - it's ok in principle, but it just doesn't work.

What would be better would be to pedestrianise a lot of the major central areas. Improve public transport, and maybe put trams in central town. Cheaper taxis (Which could still get into the zones), get rid of double decker busses and those useless bendy busses, and have more frequent and manoeuverable single decker ones.

Of course people who lived in such areas would be exempt from this.

Ban large vehicles such as HGVs and large fixed axle trucks from being in town - or at least not during busy times. i,e, before 7am and after 630pm.

Better links to central london, more ferquent services, better ventilation and facilities for underground services.

If he really wanted to do this for the good of London he wouldn't keep trying to make money from it.

They can take an example from San Francisco which has one of the best large city public transport networks I've ever used outside of europe. Furthermore the busses are gas powered and don't produce any of that horrible diesel smog.

It's a complete farce - it's doing **** all for the environment, and just winding people up. If NOBODY used the CC for a week he'd panic - they are still at a loss from the installation of the system - and they are scraping funds together for the extension - which of course will cost us. Instead of using that money on improving the decrepit and ageing public transport systems in place. Instead he just throws enough money to patch things up rather than fix the problem.

I'm not a conspiracy theorists, but from talking to bus and taxi drivers as well as members of certain groups within the London council it's pretty obvious that he's not trying to make London an easier place to get around.

The fact is in London you often NEED a car, as there isn't a viable or reliable alternative.

They say it's a 24hr city, but the tube stops early. There are seldom any cabs to be seen - yet they have the audacity to tell women not to take illegal cabs, the night busses are too few and far between, and usually horrid and overly full. It's rubbish.

Frankly for a modern city it's pretty pants - certainly compared to most of Europe.

 

[Dingo]

As with all Labour Policies.....Spin to Win!!....there is no justification for taking the charge from £5 to £8 (+60% in one year) apart from revenue generation....and to increase the size of the original zone to include, bizarrely enough, all the wealthier areas of London....is just too cynical to be true.

Whilst Ken and his Cohorts justify large pay increases for themselves they deny the "average" Entrepreneur the kindness of making a living in Central London.

I work for a large Distribution Company that supplies VITAL supplies to Hospitals on a daily basis.........and not only are we being crucified by these charges but, thanks to the Westminster Council, are being penalised by Penalty Charges for parking in areas where we have no option to park if we wish to deliver Life Giving Gases (ie) Oxygen to Hospitals, to the Community, and yet we are not given dispensation to do so!!.

Hurrah all you want, those of you who view the 4 x 4 owners as the "Upper Classes", but be aware that there is a break point for suppliers within Inner London that get included in this madness,.....and the next time your loved one is lying close to death without a suitable supply of Oxygen.......that Red Ken was responsible.....not the suppliers who cannot get dispensation from "petty" parking tickets whilst we try to deliver Life Saving supplies to YOUR LOVED ONES!!......the tax does not only affect those you despise.....but also those who's services you depend upon!!

 

[Chronos-X]

As with all Labour Policies.....Spin to Win!!....there is no justification for taking the charge from £5 to £8 (+60% in one year) apart from revenue generation....and to increase the size of the original zone to include, bizarrely enough, all the wealthier areas of London....is just too cynical to be true.

Whilst Ken and his Cohorts justify large pay increases for themselves they deny the "average" Entrepreneur the kindness of making a living in Central London.

I work for a large Distribution Company that supplies VITAL supplies to Hospitals on a daily basis.........and not only are we being crucified by these charges but, thanks to the Westminster Council, are being penalised by Penalty Charges for parking in areas where we have no option to park if we wish to deliver Life Giving Gases (ie) Oxygen to Hospitals, to the Community, and yet we are not given dispensation to do so!!.

Hurrah all you want, those of you who view the 4 x 4 owners as the "Upper Classes", but be aware that there is a break point for suppliers within Inner London that get included in this madness,.....and the next time your loved one is lying close to death without a suitable supply of Oxygen.......that Red Ken was responsible.....not the suppliers who cannot get dispensation from "petty" parking tickets whilst we try to deliver Life Saving supplies to YOUR LOVED ONES!!......the tax does not only affect those you despise.....but also those who's services you depend upon!!

Don't hospitals have car parks? Or goods entrances?

 

[HEADRAT]

So because another regieme isn't doing the right thing, we shouldn't either? The level of consumption and emissions is totally unsustainable, and it is far better that people prepare for lifestyle changes gradually rather than just wait until it is too late.

So in order to cut our own emissions we cripple our own industry etc. just to gain the high moral ground, errr no thanks!

HEADRAT

 

[kitten_caboodle]

Don't hospitals have car parks? Or goods entrances?

ever tried to park in one after 7.30? Not a chance.

 

[gjrc]

LOL! You think the CC actually cuts congestion?! It just spreads it around a little... but effectively just leaves other areas worse than before.

soo true! i live in london and the reason why K&C is now soooo bad is because the CC pushed all the traffic there.

god i hate Ken Livingstone.

 

[clv101]

So in order to cut our own emissions we cripple our own industry etc. just to gain the high moral ground, errr no thanks!

HEADRAT

Cripple? Reducing our energy consumption saves money and makes our industry more efficient. What would be really crippling would be maintaining high energy requirements/demand as energy prices continue to rise.

 

[Slime101]

Cripple? Reducing our energy consumption saves money and makes our industry more efficient. What would be really crippling would be maintaining high energy requirements/demand as energy prices continue to rise.

No.

Reducing our energy consumption makes our household bills smaller, which is good and no-one can really be anti that for the sake of a few energy light bulbs etc.

However making industry emissions lower, and decreasing their power consumption is a massive task, which will cost 100's of billions of trillions to do and as others have said will cripple the companies involved, push industry abroad, shaft our economy and still america, china and india will do what they want, leaving us out in the cold with nothing!

 

[chimaera]

Ban large vehicles such as HGVs and large fixed axle trucks from being in town - or at least not during busy times. i,e, before 7am and after 630pm.

In certain parts of London this is a policy, certainly is in the City, the problem for that is in a place like Westminster there is a high percentage of retail and deliveries need to be staggered, there just isn't enough hours in the day to start banning them from certain times, however its generally most council policies to discourage peak time use.

Better links to central london, more ferquent services, better ventilation and facilities for underground services.

Bearing in mind Ken only has charge of the underground and busses, so he can't increase train frequency. During peak time the picadilly line runs a train every 3 minutes, the victoria line every 1 minute. The issue of better vetilation has been around for years, its just physically impossible, TfL have been offering a £100,000 prize to someone who can design a tube ventilation system for the last 5 years, and no one has found a good enough method that wont cost tens of millions.

I'm not a conspiracy theorists, but from talking to bus and taxi drivers as well as members of certain groups within the London council it's pretty obvious that he's not trying to make London an easier place to get around.

Sounds like you've got a good inside track so i'm not going to say you're wrong. However i've had a lot of dealings with accessibility groups who say that the taxi drivers union has too much influence and have shot down a lot of ideas that would improve walking/cycling measures in London. Taxi's actually account for a huge ammount of polution in central London and any attempts to cut their number or have any sort of limitation measures have been vetoed.

Just an alternative view on that really, personally i take whatever the taxi drivers union says with a pinch of salt, as its in their best interests to block any measures to improve public transport and accessibility.