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Council Tax - Is it too high?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Psycho Sonny, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,385

    Location: Canada

    The house prices in Vancouver are not remotely connected to the actual wealth of those living there though - It's expensive because of the massive amount of foreign money that poured in over the last 2-3 years (house prices have literally doubled, pricing most people out of the market). There are also differences in that most people both live and work in the same city, because the distances are so huge, few people commute from one town to another. There is a big disparity in income between certain parts of the country however, which the government try and reduce by equalisation payments - basically at the provincial level rich provinces give money the central government, who distribute it to the poorer provinces.

    Local taxation ring fenced for local needs will always going to cause issues regarding local services, however just because someone has a more expensive home than someone else in another part of the country (as opposed to someone in the same town/city) doesn't mean they should pay more. As in the UK there's not necessarily a correlation between income/wealth and house price.

    I'd argue that in many cases you could argue the opposite. Someone living in an area with high house prices may not be able to afford extra taxation compared to someone living in an area with lower house prices - they're already paying more per month in mortgage/rent without any guarantee that their pay is actually higher.
     
  2. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,385

    Location: Canada

    From where? Dolphs link mentions that without providing any evidence, and completely ignoring the fact that three of the top 10 countries in the list are also some of the most diverse in the world, being countries populated almost exclusively by immigrants.

    Mid size, wealthy countries with a decent amount of space and equality seem to be those that rise to the top of the list. That usually means theres a relatively high tax rate (or at least not low) to help with the equality - perhaps causing the correlation seen in the link. Population density seems to be a big factor however, and one of the defining factors of most (bot not all) of the "happiest" countries and cities For example: http://www.newgeography.com/content/003945-health-happiness-and-density

    It's a complex issue, with a lot of variables.
     
  3. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: Aug 7, 2003

    Posts: 37,701

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    https://ink.library.smu.edu.sg/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3073&context=soss_research
     
  4. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,533

    Best we emulate Germany, most similar country to us in Europe.
     
  5. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 45,221

    Location: Plymouth

    Better stop the deficit spending then...
     
  6. Sasahara

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 12, 2009

    Posts: 3,531

    5th biggest economy not richest, you need to think what that actually means?

    China is 2nd, does that make then better off, India is practically level with us, but they are hardly rich.

    This is the false impression our politician's use, making out we are better off than we are, and most of the fools in this country fall for it.

    You want to use GDP (PPP) per capita to get a better idea how well off we are.
    Then we go down the list to 24th - 30th depending which agency you use.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    So compare us with countries in that region or lower but not the top 20.

    And with our recent currency falls our actual position may be even lower.
     
  7. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 58,983

    Idealistic notion at best as I've said before amongst other things they have access to markets we don't especially manufacturing and a hugely different outlook and culture socially.

    Not to say I don't think we shouldn't try to do some things they have done.
     
  8. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 45,221

    Location: Plymouth

    I wonder if Gigabit thinks the uk should share german attitudes towards working mothers?
     
  9. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,533

    They have access to manufacturing because they chose to take a long-term view and invested in it. We need to do the same thing IHMO.
     
  10. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,533

    Great post. We need to stop taking such a short term view on things. IMHO we need to be investing in renewable energy and things like AI.
     
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 45,221

    Location: Plymouth

    Do you know how the Germans invested in it?

    Do you know, post war, the main things they did differently to the uk?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

    In addition, West Germany didn't routinely nationalise, and where they were nationalised, such as the railways, they were run on a commercial basis but state owned, as opposed to the uk, where they were state run on a political basis.

    The Germans are also much more controlled with state spending, deficits and debts than the uk.

    In short, pretty much the opposite of everything labour currently wants to do is what Germany did and still does.
     
  12. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,252

    I remember hearing years ago that all the allied countries suffered after WW2, while the countries supposedly defeated all emerged to become wealthy countries.

    I wonder if part of the reason a country fails is because it lacks identity. If we had a more positive identity as a country then the government wouldn't seem to be asset stripping the country for short term financial gain.

    I was watching the report this morning about special school funding at crisis. We have heard the same thing about schools in general. We know the police and prison service are at crisis. Also the NHS at crisis. Whoever is controlling the purse strings seems to be playing with less and less money.

    I want to know what happened to all the money the councils were spotted saving up during that Iceland bank scandal? There was a list of councils and how much they had in investments.

    I feel the problem with Britain is we seem to have this class hierarchy system and when people join the process, politically or become a civillian working for the council, that we're contributing to 'the system'. That we're doing it for someone else, not that we have pride in our own work. Council jobs would be weeks over due because the company they chose would be milking the system. It feels like nobody is taking personal responsibility and money is literally being thrown away.

    Meanwhile the average people are having the council tax increased year on year for either the same or even a worse service to the previous year. Where is the money going to!?
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,550

    Identity is a pitiful concept in this day and age in such silly nationalistic terms, Britain is ground zero for the parasitical capitalism that Adam Smith himself thought was destructive, there's a limit to greed and we've not bothered with it.

    Eventually our safety guaranteed by political deals and old alliances will fade and we'll be left with a carcass.

    In fact i'd say identity is exactly the problem with Britain, it's abused and malformed to suit whomever's political agenda to continue the pandering to this parasite, Thatcher was ultimately the prime enabler of this, she was a heavy soul and arguably a good leader, but it shouldn't detract from her mortal sin.

    Everyone since has simply been moving this goalpost along and deeply damaging our ability to solve it, eventually we'll be overrun by populists (go figure, and no what we have now is the demented calm) as people's lives have barely improved in nearly two decades...
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  14. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,440

    Location: Wales

    Scrap local taxation and do it at a national lev r l seems the sensible approach
     
  15. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 27,717

    I think Canada has a very open immigration policy and a restriction on where you can build. So house prices and therefore everything else is going really well. All the rich asians are flocking there from China, India, etc. They pump more into the country.

    The problem we have is with the EU we have poor immigrants coming here to make money then take it back home. So we are losing money and it's going into Poland, Romania, Albania, etc.

    Brexit could be a good thing if we bring in lots more rich and keep a steady flow of low paid workers coming in. Canada is flourishing. I mean for their house prices to be so high and they are much higher than the UK. There has to be lots of money swilling around the system.

    I mean $12 million would buy you a 500 acre estate here. It also would get you a whole street in the most expensive areas of the UK. And in vancouver it only got you 1 house on top of a hill far away from the city. with a decent sized garden but nothing special.

    Taxes are too high. We need to encourage spending and tax will automatically increase as more money is spent. We also need to scrap the uni fee's for rich overseas students or lessen them. We aren't as good as we think we are this country is a cesspit. Staying 4 weeks in Canada proved this to me. If I could buy a house there tomorrow I would go and never look back.

    Think about it if we were to suddenly get 5 million rich asians flocking here to study. How much money would be pumped into the economy? You are talking trillions.

    In vancouver they were all wearing the best of gear, driving ferraris, etc. Basically throwing money into canada. They will be renting accomodation, eating out, etc. Basically keeping lots of people in jobs.
     
  16. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 7,933

    Location: Düsseldorf

    It's hard to decipher your rambling....but it seems like you're advocating mass Chinese immigration so that we too can enjoy paying 12 million dollars for a house.
     
  17. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,935

    This is nonsense. It is a fact that EU immigrants on average earn higher salaries, pay more taxes and have lower costs than British citizens.

    EU immigrants are also renting accomodation, eating out and keepign a lot of people on Jobs. Which is why the UK has historically low unemployment rates.
     
  18. Sasahara

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 12, 2009

    Posts: 3,531

    You got a source for this?

    And are you counting the average UK citizen, including children, pensioners, unemployed and part timers. If that's the case then it's not a fair comparasion.
     
  19. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,252

    It's kind of interesting you focused in on Identity and nothing else.

    If you can't recognise the merits of a combined identity, a foundation of all countries, companies and groups of any nature through-out history, then I would be interested to hear your new idea that will overcome the problems mentioned in this thread.
     
  20. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,550

    Submitting to Globalism fully, because the alternative is anti-cooperative and destructively retarded.

    We could have solved our climate catastrophe many times over by now if the pigheaded nationalists and anti-science mongrels didn't have a podium.