Dashcam footage. Who was at fault?

Soldato
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Again no ones (or at least I'm not) arguing the cyclist wasn't in the wrong.

I'm just saying a car driver can't drive blindly across a junction either. That's also wrong. But because its become normal people think it's ok.

But the irony is apparently only ok if a car does it. If you change it to a truck or a cyclist blindly turning across a junctions that's wrong.

the reason why that is normal practice have been outlined to you already, its the same reason why forcing cyclists to adhere to the queue in line isn't a good idea.

the simple fact is the only person who could have taken action to prevent that was the cyclist, he didn't and his punishment was smacking into the side of a car.
 
Man of Honour
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I wouldn't know ho insurance companies may deem at fault, but what I do know is that safe and competent driving is all about being smooth and anticipating hazards. The driver of the car didn't do that.

I've been on courses where instructors specifically get you to talk about possible hazards and cyclists passing on the inside is a common one that you need the view to discount before turning.
 
Soldato
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Crazy talk. See a gap and go like hell for it.

Unless your a cyclist. They should dismount and walk until they find a cycle lane on the pavement.

I'm still amazed people think its ok for the car to cross the path of oncoming traffic without proper observation.......
 
Soldato
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the simple fact is the only person who could have taken action to prevent that was the cyclist, he didn't and his punishment was smacking into the side of a car.

The car driver could have waited or slowly edged out and leaned forward for a better view instead of being impatient and taking the risk

I had to wait today when a bus blocked my view, within half a minute I had a clear view and turned in, the world didn't end! :)
 
Soldato
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I wouldn't know ho insurance companies may deem at fault, but what I do know is that safe and competent driving is all about being smooth and anticipating hazards. The driver of the car didn't do that.

The little I found seemed to 50:50 with any injury award bring reduced due to it partly the injured persons fault. Only examples I found were for motorcyclists though. May not apply in this scenario. Who knows.
 
Soldato
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The Cyclist contributed to the collision but I still believe the fault to be that of the car.

It's like pulling out of a junction across a give way line and then being hit by a speeding car. The speeding car has Priority and some blame should be proportioned to him but the guy who didn't give way is at fault.
 
Soldato
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I wouldn't know ho insurance companies may deem at fault, but what I do know is that safe and competent driving is all about being smooth and anticipating hazards. The driver of the car didn't do that.

I've been on courses where instructors specifically get you to talk about possible hazards and cyclists passing on the inside is a common one that you need the view to discount before turning.

Where I drive there so many cyclists in the city you have to always check. I'm guessing people might not be used to that where cycling isn't as popular.
 
Soldato
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Thats not entirely accurate.

GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing
I meant with conflictless light programs.

In NL most junctions are designed that there are no conflicts possible (if your light it green, then there's no way peds or cyclists have green). That also means if you have proof (eg, video footage or witnesseS) that you had green and you get in an accident, there's no way the insurance can put any blame on you).


I agree you can react in less than 1 second if your alert except most drivers are just not. There is a difference between reaction and actually hitting the breaks which is more like 2.3 seconds.
Therefore, drivers fault. The government here always uses 1 second for calculations of stopping distance. 1 sec reaction time + brake distance is the accepted stopping distance.
Again no ones (or at least I'm not) arguing the cyclist wasn't in the wrong.
I am, the car driver is 100% wrong legally because he didn't have the right way way, any other factor is irrelevant to who's at fault.

I'm not denying the cyclist could have prevented it, it's not very smart go approach the junction at that speed, and that he should have been more cautious due to being blinded by the Van.

But expecting cyclists to:
- Pay attention (they don't, especially the younger ones, you should see the armies of middle/high schoolers around here before or after school hours, litterally 100+ cyclists taking the right of way, going though reds, cycling 5-abreast so nobody can overtake them, general disregard for any other traffic, etc..., But generally big city cyclists don't care about the rules, that is simply a fact, and nothing will ever change about that)
- Sit in stationary traffic (seriously, if you're behaving as a car with a push or motorbike, you're an idiot, it's both not safe and it defeats the point of using a two wheeler)
- Overtake on the other side instead of near kerb (cyclists belong near the kerb, and even without a cycle lane, the standard is to treat the left (here right) side of the road as a cycle lane beside the car's driving lane).
- Insurance or riding courses for cyclists.

All above is a delusion, look in countries where there are more cyclists and stop dreaming. You need to relax the situation for cyclists, not worsen it.
More cyclists means less cars on the road so I don't even see why you'd want to discourage cycling, I myself want as much people as possible to cycle to work, it means more space for me, a petrolhead who loves anything with an engine and likes to go as fast as physically possible.
 
Soldato
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...I am, the car driver is 100% wrong legally because he didn't have the right way way, any other factor is irrelevant to who's at fault....

Having a right of way, doesn't mean you can "ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner"

Dangerous cycling.
(1)A person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)—

(a)the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and

(b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous.

(3)In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of that subsection what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.]

Thats before you get into any of the rules about overtaking. Many cyclists think right of way means they can compete for a Darwin Awards.

Both driver and cyclists made the same rookie error. No vision, too fast too stop.
 
Soldato
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Cyclist is a twit!, what was he thinking!?!

...he wasn't expecting his car clone...

A guy runs a red light. His passenger tells him not to do that, but the driver says "It's okay, my brother drives like this!" He runs another red light. His passenger tries to insist, the driver says again "I told ya, it's okay, my brother drives like this!" Then he comes up to a green light and stops. His passenger asks what he's doing now and the driver says "Well, my brother might be coming the other way!"

He was actually talking about cab drivers from different countries. Whenever the cab driver would run a red light he would say "Don't worry I'm a professional!" when he finally stops at the red light he says "I stop because there might be other professionals driving." -George Carlin fan

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/2dkq4h/guy_runs_a_red_light/?st=j3bhh6y1&sh=6426a7ab
 

Dup

Dup

Soldato
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I'm a bit surprised at many people in this thread are oblivious to where to look for cyclists when driving.

The driver was looking at a clear open junction they were being allowed to cross traffic into, which they navigated like any other motorist would, and should. At the point the cyclist made contact the driver should have been then looking forward anticipating the next hazard further along not waiting for captain oblivious to cycle into the side of them.

Without the cooperation of the cyclist reading the road ahead of them with the stopped traffic adjacent and open junction, this accident was inevitable.

The catalyst in this situation is the minibus driver. They would/should have seen the cyclist approaching and their closing speed and either carried on or warned the driver if possible. Not ideal, but at the end of the day they caused this IMO but the cyclist is still a tool for not reading the road and could have taken themselves out the equation and avoided the incident all together. The car driver still caused a right of way violation in the eyes of insurance and possibly the law, however not much more caution could be taken unless they waited possibly many minutes/hours for the opposite lane to be completely clear and sighted, which is not making progress, which is what using the roads is all about.

No matter who has right of way, we should all be using the roads aware of any potential upcoming hazards and expect to react accordingly. People make mistakes and we're not all equal. If you don't go out on the road expecting and aware of something potentially life changing or threatening happening, you shouldn't be on it.

I cycle, ride horses and drive a car on the roads. I have made my fair share of mistakes, I've also been shoved by a passing car into a parked car at good speed when cycling (which resulted in 3 hours facial surgery to reattach a lot of it). I've also been collected in other peoples accidents because I was cycling too fast to stop due to an incident in front of me, much like this one except it was a young girl on her bike (about 7) pulling out on a motorbike where I flew over the top of them.

Using the roads is about making progress as safely as possible. Doesn't mean go slow, but it does mean being aware and reading the road. The car driver was right to make progress, the cyclist less so IMO. They had every opportunity to react and didn't, the car could never have seen them coming.

The bus driver had the view of everything and in my opinion, they created the situation. If it was me driving that van I would have checked my inside before flashing them through. That IMO is where the mistake was made and the cyclist should have seen that coming.
 
Soldato
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It's been explained numerous times how the driver could have proceeded with more caution without waiting

And If they had chosen to wait why would it possibly have taken hours? I've never heard of a vehicle having to wait hours to safely turn in at a junction unless there's some extenuating circumstances
 
Soldato
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The driver was looking at a clear open junction they were being allowed to cross traffic into...

None of that is relevant to my my comment. My comment was, I'm surprised how many on this thread, wouldn't expect a cyclist on the inside of a line of traffic. Considering its their normal road position. I mean normal cyclists not who didn't stop as in the video. They don't expect to see them to such a level as to not check the inside of cars in a single lane.
 
Soldato
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Didn't see it mentioned but what if a pedestrian was crossing and the van let them across. Would that change anything blame wise, obviously a pedestrian would potentially be much worse off.

yes, basically pedestrians always have right of way, so if the minbus flashed a pedestrian and the pedestrian had already begun to cross, they have right of way
 
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