David Cameron suggets abolishing housing benefit for under 25's

People need to learn that they can't have it like the people on TV, if they do then they need to work for it. Too much easy credit has had the country and its population living outsides its means. It's not the states job to support peoples lifestyles. Education is finally getting a reform with a dedicated man at the helm but it's not possible to fix it for people already out of education.

It's difficult to discourage the wont trys and support those who cannot try, but justifying carrying on the former for the sake of the minority latter doesn't get us anywhere.
The problem is wage repression - the share of wages for the bottom 80% has been steadily falling for the last 25 years.

Living costs have increased significantly over the last 20 years & wages have fallen behind, it was easier to get by if you worked 40 hours a week than it is now (due to higher living costs).

We now have a population split, many over 30's/40's (not all, some are still decent human beings) who enjoyed a free education, economic prosperity, reasonable wages to living costs ratio, cheap houses & the opportunity for full state support - who now want to cut the support now they will no longer need it.

Definitely a case of, "Well, I won't need it any-more so pull the plug" - the young of today are pressed with lower wages, increased living costs, no more free education & a major lack of jobs.

To ignore this is to deny reality - but hey, don't let the real world get in the way of your delusions.

While these changes don't make a single bit of different to my life (not eligible for any support & over 25) - I'm not so selfish to wish hardship on people who are not so fortunate.

Punishing the down on luck to stop the lazy isn't morally justifiable in any decent society, neither should we strive to live in one in which it's considered acceptable.

Some really poor excuses for human beings in this country.
 
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You are utterly wrong, the problem is wage repression - the share of wages for the bottom 80% has been steadily falling for the last 25 years.

This kind of trend can't continue without having an impact.

How has wage repression effected rents? Someone on NMW will not be after the same house as someone in the top 1,2,3% hell I'm on the average wage(ish) and I don't go anywhere near the bottom.

There's an argument that NMW is having a negative impact. If you want to employ someone to do a job that is only affordable at £6 p/h then you can't, you have to pay then £6.08. Germany doesn't have a NMW but seems to get along
 
So should they increase the minimum wage to offset rental costs? Or even split the minimum wage to different values depending on where you live in the country? Or should people just live with their parents? Which of course won't work if the parents are not around....
 
how about we reduce the politicians salaries and increase their taxes? i think we would save quite a bit over the year? :]

How about we make them do their job? Some MP's take the salary and work full time or part time. What is the difference between taking dole money and working on the side to taking an MP's salary and working on the side?
 
How about we make them do their job? Some MP's take the salary and work full time or part time. What is the difference between taking dole money and working on the side to taking an MP's salary and working on the side?

Quite a bit, I'll leave you to justify that before any other opinions are given :p
 
Live somewhere cheaper then, or house share, or live with your parents.
I cannot afford to live somewhere where a 1 bed flat is £650 per month......so I don't. I do a second job which pays me via a free flat. Otherwise I would be back at home with the parents.
It really is a case of you cannot live somewhere expensive on a naff job.
There are plenty of 3 bed houses for £400 PCM in Stoke. You must realise you can't live somewhere fancier than your minimum wage job allows!
People need to live near places which have jobs.

Yes some parts of the UK have cheap homes, but these are also places with no jobs (very high unemployment).
 
How has wage repression effected rents? Someone on NMW will not be after the same house as someone in the top 1,2,3% hell I'm on the average wage(ish) and I don't go anywhere near the bottom.
Wage repression make the bottom 80% poorer overall, are you suggesting that people in the top 20% don't buy up property as investment opportunities?.

Wage repression does not increase rent, it decreases to total income - which results in rent being a higher proportion of salary after taxes.

It's not that hard to understand.

There's an argument that NMW is having a negative impact. If you want to employ someone to do a job that is only affordable at £6 p/h then you can't, you have to pay then £6.08. Germany doesn't have a NMW but seems to get along
Germany already pays it's people a decent wage, they didn't need to force a NMW, it also has an extensive social welfare system.

If a business can't afford to pay staff at least £6.08 an hour they perhaps need to re-evaluate the business model.

All the NMW does is reduce the amount the government has to subsidise the wages of the lowest earners - which to be frank is already quite a disgusting concept.

I don't like my taxes being used to top up the wages of people who should already be given a decent living wage.

Also,

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2012/02/articles/de1202029i.htm

National minimum wages for temporary agency workers came into force on 1 January 2012, setting a minimum hourly wage of €7.89 in western Germany and €7.01 in eastern Germany, including Berlin. Rates will increase to €8.19 in the west and €7.50 in the east from 1 November 2012.

They apply to all temporary agency workers in Germany regardless of their employer’s country of origin. Around 900,000 workers are estimated to be covered by the decree, which expires on 31 October 2013.

They also have greater wage equality to start with, a NMW law is usually put in if the state can no longer afford to subsidise big business.
 
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Quite a bit, I'll leave you to justify that before any other opinions are given :p

One takes money from the public purse when he/she should be doing the work conditions(of taking the money) they have agreed ....... and the other takes money from the public purse when he/she should be doing the conditions(of taking the money) they have agreed.

They only difference is one lot makes their own rules and the other has the rules made by the first lot.
 
Indeed.

A real shame IMO, we really had the chance to break free from the shackles of a completely mental new labour and start to put this country right.

The trouble is our disgusting electorate waited too long, far too long - until Hague had been replaced with Cameron, which it itself is proving fatal, but they they teamed him up with the Lib Dems.

I mean, what the actual ****?!

We're doomed. If it's not out of touch tories then it's nonsense liberalism or back to crime loving illegal war starting mass immigration encouraging new labour.

Stop the planet, I want to get off :(

I agree with all of the above, this is wet-liberal almost lefty tory, and has as been a crushing disapointment
 
Live somewhere cheaper then, or house share, or live with your parents.
I cannot afford to live somewhere where a 1 bed flat is £650 per month......so I don't. I do a second job which pays me via a free flat. Otherwise I would be back at home with the parents.
It really is a case of you cannot live somewhere expensive on a naff job.
There are plenty of 3 bed houses for £400 PCM in Stoke. You must realise you can't live somewhere fancier than your minimum wage job allows!

That is easy to say, not so easy to do.

What if you cannot live with your parents, relative earnings to housing prices is only part of the issue, moving to a strange city, with no support, no job, no local knowledge is not as simple as you imply, also you run the risk of creating more economic black spots as people are forced in ghettos and the jobs dry up as the more affluent move out and take their investment with them. There is a reason why housing is cheaper in Stoke than Salisbury....there is also far higher unemployment and relative poverty in Stoke than Salisbury.

The simple truth is that there is not sufficent low cost social housing, not enough jobs in the areas where housing is cheap enough to afford on minimum wages and simply saying 'sorry but you are under 25, you must live with your parents or buy a tent (which site fees would still cost you upward of £200 a month)' is arbitrary and doesn't address the actual problem of insufficient opportunity and provision of affordable basic needs.
 
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Return of the nasty party as David Cameron looks at stripping welfare benefits

David Cameron will signal today the end of "compassionate Conservatism" with plans for a crackdown on welfare spending for the young, the jobless and those with large families.

In a speech which will appeal to the Tory right, Mr Cameron will demand an end to what he calls Britain's "culture of entitlement". He will propose:

* Removing or restricting some benefits from out-of-work families with large numbers of children. This could include cuts to child benefit;

* Scrapping housing-benefit payments to 380,000 under-25s, worth an average of £90 a week, forcing them to support themselves or live with their parents and saving the Government £2 bn a year;

* Making the long-term unemployed carry out full-time community work or lose all their benefits.

Conservative sources suggested that some of the benefit changes could be brought in ahead of the next election.

However, this was disputed by the Liberal Democrats, who said that they would not allow measures penalising the vulnerable to pass during the lifetime of this Coalition Government.

The proposals have also been attacked by charities, which have warned they could lead to a significant rise in homelessness amongst the young.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ks-at-stripping-welfare-benefits-7879749.html



What of the policies to tackle insufficient low cost housing, youth unemployment, low wages and poor child care provision for low income families, just to point out a few of the issues that need addressing before removing HB from under 25s, limiting benefits to families and forcing people into unpaid work for the State (state slavery???)......better to employ the long term unemployed people on community projects, building low cost affordable housing and giving child care to low income families as well as other community based projects aimed at helping those to help themselves while paying them a fair wage and the relevant training so they can take those skills into the private sector when the time comes.....give people the right opportunity and accessiblity and you'll be surprised just what they can accomplish.
 
I agree castiel, I don't know what he is playing at.

In the same breath he is saying that Middle Class Pensioners and families keep their Universal Benefits such as Child Benefit for those on middle incomes, and OAP passes,TV Licences and Winter Fuel Allowances for the Middle Class Elderly.....

Benefits should be targeted to those that need them, not to prop up the voting demographic of the party in power.

I don't need CB....so we give it by SO to the Trussell Trust, but tbh, it should be means tested and we shouldn't get it at all.... as all welfare benefits should be, regardless of age or contribution to the system.

I would rather it was used to help the poorest and most vulnerable in society than supplying extra pocket money for middle class children.....equally the Winter Fuel allowance should be targeted to those on Pension credits, as should OAP passes and TV licences, not those who drive their BMW to the Golf Course each weekend....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ren-PMs-welfare-vision.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
 
He's probably trying to drive away the Lib Dems.

The problem is he is also at risk of driving away moderate Conservative voters, while we need to tackle the long term unemployed, those that use the welfare state as a means to avoid work and the culture of entitlement in our society, you do not do it but pulling the rug from under people without having the means to catch them before they hurt themselves.

Using the American System such as the one in Wisconsin will do more harm than good....it may get the welfare bill down, but it will also create more inequality, poverty, less social mobility and we will see more homelessness, and all the issues related to that.

Address the shortfall in our society first, make sure that the availability and opportunity to stand on your own two feet is actually in existance and available to all before limiting or removing the support structures for people, especially the young and vulnerable.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ks-at-stripping-welfare-benefits-7879749.html



What of the policies to tackle insufficient low cost housing, youth unemployment, low wages and poor child care provision for low income families, just to point out a few of the issues that need addressing before removing HB from under 25s, limiting benefits to families and forcing people into unpaid work for the State (state slavery???)......better to employ the long term unemployed people on community projects, building low cost affordable housing and giving child care to low income families as well as other community based projects aimed at helping those to help themselves while paying them a fair wage and the relevant training so they can take those skills into the private sector when the time comes.....give people the right opportunity and accessiblity and you'll be surprised just what they can accomplish.

I agree, Camerons statement is a great idealogical statement, but its unachievable in the UK we live in. I fully support the statement before disclaimers and exceptions, but I see it as just unworkable.

No matter what your views on minimum welfare standard to catch those most in need and whether or not thousands or millions are breeding a new generation of non-workers as the dole is just easier, the simple fact is we are not building enough housing.

Some may remember I started a thread probably 9 months ago about what would you do with £75bn. It was when one of the lastest QE spendings was annouced, I suggested the whole lot should be ploughed into social housing building affordable but non-inspirational housing throughout the UK. Getting people into work, and increasing our housing stock. Giving them a BASIC fit for purpose roof over their heads, but the sort you would aim to move out from. Over time not only would this address the need, it would also address the fact that far too much of our private housing stock is taken up non-owner occupiers.

Regarding welfare its just out of control and its been far from needs based decision making and far more about vote buying BY ALL PARTIES. You can look back at some of the labour governments decisions, and how unpopular some of them were, they didn't just make it overly easy for those at the bottom as they recognised that they also needed the support of the working middle.

If the population as a whole truly agrees that a roof over your head is the basic lowest level we will accept in the UK we should have a proper longer term building strategy that supports that. Currently we do not. The house building companies will only bulid limited housing when demand is low as otherwise they would create an oversupply and push down prices, why would they do that when they have a limited resource (building land), better just to wait until prices are going up again and demand is higher than supply for what they want to build.

Ensuring we have an adequate and acceptable quality housing stock would undoubedly cost a lot, but it would be an investment in the future for the UK. Overvalued housing just encourages general asset overvaluation, and that leads to higher wage expectations and demands. We are competing globally and our overvalued property just pushes up our costs. The NMW is a reflection of that, it is being driven by trying to fix the income of the poorest workers not trying to tackle the expenditure side. For most people their rent/mortgage is their highest monthly outgoing by far. If we could bring down our housing costs we could bring down our NMW leaving people same or better off, passing the savings back to our employers, making them more able to compete internationally and possibly attracting more to come to the UK.

I bet most people would agree to building more housing, but I bet most wouldn't want to see themselves paying for it, nor want it on their doorstep. Too many object as it is to green belt development etc yet to truly build enough housing to make a big difference in the UK (to house prices and truly affect supply) I wouldn't be surprised if you are talking of building 500,000-1,000,000 new developments over the next 5 years.

Unfortunately, like my suggestion no one is allowed to leave education with a decent level of employability, these things take a generation to change. None of the governments of the last 40 years have tackled this issue as they are too short termist, based on the electorates want for now and not later. Basically we want short term consumption rather than long term investment so thats what they give us.
 
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