Dealing with troublesome employees?

Metalface Mark · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:19

My brother in law and I have recently taken over our family business, its running well, but we have a member of staff who is pushing boundries.

He has taken quite a lot of sick time off, was off yesterday, texted in today to say that he would be back monday, now when we phoned our other engineer who was supposed to be picked up by him this morning, he stated that he was still in bed, when they were both actually already on site.

They had decided to play a trick on us, and when i called him on his mobile about why he had done it, he hung up on me, i called back and he hung up again.

I havent had to discipline any of the staff as of yet, and I dont know whether to set an example of him, or put an arm round his shoulder and ask him why he needs to behave as he does.

Can any bosses with good man management skills add an insight please?

Visage · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:21

InwardSinging said:
My brother in law and I have recently taken over our family business, its running well, but we have a member of staff who is pushing boundries.

He has taken quite a lot of sick time off, was off yesterday, texted in today to say that he would be back monday, now when we phoned our other engineer who was supposed to be picked up by him this morning, he stated that he was still in bed, when they were both actually already on site.

They had decided to play a trick on us, and when i called him on his mobile about why he had done it, he hung up on me, i called back and he hung up again.

I havent had to discipline any of the staff as of yet, and I dont know whether to set an example of him, or put an arm round his shoulder and ask him why he needs to behave as he does.

Can any bosses with good man management skills add an insight please?

Id give them both a formal written warning as to their future conduct, and make sure its on record that if they continue it will be counted as a sackable offence.

Gilly · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:23

Visage said:
Id give them both a formal written warning as to their future conduct, and make sure its on record that if they continue it will be counted as a sackable offence.

Probably not the best way to start off. Make an enemy of the people you're already having trouble with.

I'd carry out a one-to-one and possibly put together an improvement plan. He'd have to be on time, cut down his sickness absence, etc. Keep his nose clean for X amount of weeks/months. Otherwise disciplinary action would take place.

G|mp · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:25

^^^

An informal one to one is def the best way to go about this

Visage · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:26

Gilly said:
Probably not the best way to start off. Make an enemy of the people you're already having trouble with.

I'd carry out a one-to-one and possibly put together an improvement plan. He'd have to be on time, cut down his sickness absence, etc. Keep his nose clean for X amount of weeks/months. Otherwise disciplinary action would take place.

People who mess around clearly have no work ethic - being matey with them, IME just encourages them to take the **** even more.

Whats the worst that could happen? They carry on and you sack them, giving you the oppurtunity to hire some hard-working Poles for half the money.

Win-win.

Efour · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:30

Yes getting formal right away will only alienate them even more. Call them into the office one day or visit them onsite and have a chat saying what they are doing is basically screwing you up and ask them to try and behave more professionaly. Say a lot of " i dont want to have to do this" type things, if they have any shred of respect they will be aware they have crossed the line. If they persist formal letter, sack.

Are they hard to replace or is there plenty of skilled people in your trade?

Metalface Mark · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:32

Efour2 said:
Yes getting formal right away will only alienate them even more. Call them into the office one day or visit them onsite and have a chat saying what they are doing is basically screwing you up and ask them to try and behave more professionaly. Say a lot of " i dont want to have to do this" type things, if they have any shred of respect they will be aware they have crossed the line. If they persist formal letter, sack.

Are they hard to replace or is there plenty of skilled people in your trade?

Yes they are hard to replace, skilled engineers, we have just spent £4k putting him through his corgi training again too.

Moley · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:38

They know they are hard to replace, they know you have just invested a significant amount of money in them, they know you are new to running things.

So they are testing you to see how far they can push you.

Remember they may be skilled engineers, but no one wants to be fired for gross misconduct!

Come down hard on them, but not in an angry or vengeful manner. You are their BOSS not their FRIEND.

Make it clear who is in charge and their behaviour is not acceptable, issue a written warning making it clear what you expect of them in the future.

Any kid gloves treatment now will weaken you for the future.

Gilly · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:40

Visage said:
People who mess around clearly have no work ethic - being matey with them, IME just encourages them to take the **** even more.

Whats the worst that could happen? They carry on and you sack them, giving you the oppurtunity to hire some hard-working Poles for half the money.

Win-win.

Yes, they carry on and you sack them. Whereas my way you've given them an opportunity to improve without being a **** over it, which means they're more likely to improve. If they don't you sack them.

My way is far more likely to work than your way, and I don't have to act a **** and the skilled staff that are already in place carry on with their roles. An improvement plan also means you can keep a close eye on them.

Far better.

Metalface Mark · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:41

jamiemoles said:
They know they are hard to replace, they know you have just invested a significant amount of money in them, they know you are new to running things.

So they are testing you to see how far they can push you.

Remember they may be skilled engineers, but no one wants to be fired for gross misconduct!

Come down hard on them, but not in an angry or vengeful manner. You are their BOSS not their FRIEND.

Make it clear who is in charge and their behaviour is not acceptable, issue a written warning making it clear what you expect of them in the future.

Any kid gloves treatment now will weaken you for the future.

That is the other problem, I have been friends with the guy since we were babies, my father gave him a job 15 years ago when he needed one, and can be a nice guy sometimes, but has a nasty side and bad temper also.

daveyj27 · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:43

I try and stick with the following method:

1. Informal "chat". Raise your concerns in a face to face sit-down meeting. Ask them if they have any issues too. If the lax behaviour continues.....

2. Verbal warning. Let them know, firmly but fairly, that future misconduct will result in disciplinary action. Still no improvement? Then.....

3. Written warning. Make it clear that if improvement isn't immediately evident then their contract will, regrettably, be terminated.

4. If it has to go this far, then it's time to part company. Sack him.

Moley · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:56

InwardSinging said:
That is the other problem, I have been friends with the guy since we were babies, my father gave him a job 15 years ago when he needed one, and can be a nice guy sometimes, but has a nasty side and bad temper also.

Then I'm afraid you have a difficult decision to make. Is his friendship or your business more important to you? I suspect by taking on the business you have already decided but you're finding it difficult to take the tough decisions that all managers have to learn to take - that of disciplining employees.

Call him in, be firm but fair and explain that during work time you expect him to be professional and any future misconduct will result in proper disciplinary proceedings. You cannot treat him any different because he is a friend. You MUST get this ground rule clear NOW before it's too late.

I work at a Citizens Advice Bureau and see employer/employee issues all the time. Trust me when it comes to issues like this you must make sure you do not send any mixed messages.

During working hours you are an EMPLOYER.
Out of working hours you can be a FRIEND.

Don't mix them up, you'll pay later.

Hope this helps

J.

Efour · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:56

Freindship and management is always so hard.

You have gotta set the boundary. THe bloke has to know. Its a really hard thing to do and for him to accept it. I do not envy you.

Is your brother as freindly with the bloke as you? Could he do the "dirty work" for you.

I reckon you will be ok tho, maybe do it over a few beers. Tell him this is the way its going to be, dont take it personally but I HAVE to do it like this or you are in danger of not having a company to work for.

matrhos · 1 Sep 2006 at 10:58

Be very, very careful before sitting down for an informal chat. This is not the legally correct way to go about thinkgs and if the employee is clued up will simply deny the allegations and walk out. Now you've got a wrongful dismissal case against you as the employee was 'forced out of work due to false allegations of misconduct'.

The ONLY way to deal with a misbehaving employee without concrete evidence is to suspend them on full pay whilst an investigation is launched.

Give it a day ot two. Calm down and allow them to think about their actions. Now call them in for a formal interview and get the facts properly. The employee now has two options. Quit, but you will now be covered legally as you made every attempt to give the employee a fair say. Or they will get back to work accepting the outcome of your meeting and a formal warning.

A friend of mine laid into an employee after catching them stealing cash out of her handbag. My friend was promptly sued for wrongful dismissal after making up a load of lies in court about how she was 'replacing larger notes with smaller ones of her own' out of my friends handbag. Rubbish, but the court awarded her £8000.

Be careful. The law is not on your side.

Berserker · 1 Sep 2006 at 11:03

Gilly said:
Yes, they carry on and you sack them. Whereas my way you've given them an opportunity to improve without being a **** over it, which means they're more likely to improve. If they don't you sack them.

My way is far more likely to work than your way, and I don't have to act a **** and the skilled staff that are already in place carry on with their roles. An improvement plan also means you can keep a close eye on them.

Far better.

The other benefit of your approach is you don't screw with the morale of any other employees. Come down hard at the first sign of a problem and it will likely affect everyone.

Friends or not, you have a business to run. If you don't stamp this behaviour out now, it would very likely end up reflecting badly on your business and cost you customers. That's bad for everyone.

Vixen · 1 Sep 2006 at 11:13

The first thing you need to do is look over the contracts that they have signed and see what (if anything) they say regarding time off work sick. You may find yourself in a difficult situation if there is nothing in writing.
If there is a mention of sick leave, then have a word privately with the employees. Ask if there's anything they'd like to discuss, or if they feel there are problems with the new management system. Make sure they know that you don't want to fire them, but that you would rather they came to you if they had problems than just mess you around.
Don't count it as a verbal warning though, just keep it casual. If it continues, then go through verbal warning/written warning/out.

Youstolemyname · 1 Sep 2006 at 11:14

Gilly said:
Probably not the best way to start off. Make an enemy of the people you're already having trouble with.

I'd carry out a one-to-one and possibly put together an improvement plan. He'd have to be on time, cut down his sickness absence, etc. Keep his nose clean for X amount of weeks/months. Otherwise disciplinary action would take place.

Quoted for the truth. As a new manager you want to make your mark on your employees but you dont want to come across as heavy handed from the outset or you will damage morale.

Have a quiet word in his ear on monday being firm but fair. Explain what is expected of him but DO NOT issue an ultimatum. The improvement plan is a good idea. Start off by asking him to let you know why he thinks you have got him in for a chat. Make him do the talking and before you know it they think they have had the idea themselves.

Good luck with it!

Metalface Mark · 1 Sep 2006 at 11:50

Thanks for the advice guys, Ill let you know how it turns out. I have decided to tell him to come in at 4pm on Monday to have a chat, we will see what happens

Kol · 1 Sep 2006 at 11:59

/awaits Sequoia.

Sounds like a tough position to be in mate. I don't envy you in the slightest! Awkward choice.

FireBIade · 1 Sep 2006 at 14:33

InwardSinging said:
My brother in law and I have recently taken over our family business, its running well, but we have a member of staff who is pushing boundries.

He has taken quite a lot of sick time off, was off yesterday, texted in today to say that he would be back monday, now when we phoned our other engineer who was supposed to be picked up by him this morning, he stated that he was still in bed, when they were both actually already on site.

They had decided to play a trick on us, and when i called him on his mobile about why he had done it, he hung up on me, i called back and he hung up again.

I havent had to discipline any of the staff as of yet, and I dont know whether to set an example of him, or put an arm round his shoulder and ask him why he needs to behave as he does.

Can any bosses with good man management skills add an insight please?

I'm no boss but consider the outcome of your actions, you could:

Come down hard with an official warning which will let them know that your not playing games with them. But like others have said this may alienate them. Sometimes that can be a good thing as it's can cool off bad behaviour but not break the trust between you and them.

Informal chat with a verbal warning near the end. Might make you look weak and therefore they will never respect you and continue or get worse. Or they may see it as a good thing trying to get respect from fellow employee's because they've 'been to see the boss again'.

Ignore their games, they will get paranoid about possible action that is comming to them or they will think everything's ok and continue but perhaps unlikely to get worse or more extreme.

A sacking normally shakes everybody up and they will behave for a while. be sure the person your getting rid of is the right one.

Ideally a Boss would like a warm atmosphere without people who cause trouble or overstep the boundary of acceptable behaviour. It's a hard balance to achieve. The point is to be preffesional at all times without fail, if you ever have conveyed a relaxed approach to your job this may follow through to other employees.