Poll: Death Penalty - Yay or Nay

Should the death penalty be reinstated?

  • Yes

    Votes: 321 42.6%
  • No

    Votes: 432 57.4%

  • Total voters
    753
Soldato
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Indeed. You can never be 100% sure of guilt all the time. If you have the death penalty, you will kill innocent people, that is a logical consequence.

There's also the pragmatic view that execution is simply too expensive considering the due process requirements.

Implementing a death sentence has its own complications. The judgement of the defendant has to be by people who are not against a death sentence yet deliver justice with the same consistency as other people making the judgement and also gross under representation of groups must be avoided to prevent some people feeling alienated or unjustly placed within a system built for our comfort and protection.

The US uses a 'death qualified Jury' system. This is where there are a few requirements to qualify for the jury. The requirements are obvious and seem simple but create its own bias.

From Wiki:

A death-qualified jury is a jury in a criminal law case in the United States in which the death penalty is a prospective sentence. Such a jury will be composed of jurors who:

-Are not categorically opposed to the imposition of capital punishment;
-Are not of the belief that the death penalty must be imposed in all instances of capital murder—that is, they would consider life imprisonment as a possible penalty.


The creation of such a jury requires the striking during voir dire of jurors who express opposition to the death penalty such that they are unable or unwilling to set aside personal, moral, or emotional objections toward the supporting of a death sentence, and is designed to produce a fair and impartial jury of which the members will fairly consider all options, including the death penalty and life imprisonment.

Expressing opposition to the death penalty does not automatically disqualify a juror. A party may attempt to rehabilitate the juror by asking questions as to whether, personal convictions notwithstanding, they might consider the death penalty. A juror who expresses exorbitant support for the death penalty who would thus otherwise be struck may be rehabilitated should they state a willingness to consider life imprisonment.

And a bit about its Bias:

The bias imposed by the rule goes beyond the application of the death penalty itself. Several studies have found that death-qualified juries are made up of fewer women and minorities. Death-qualified juries are often criticized because they have a similar effect as excluding jurors based on race or gender,[4] which intentional exclusion, in Batson v. Kentucky in 1986, was held as inconsistent with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Empirical evidence adduced in Lockhart also has shown that death-qualified juries are more likely than other jurors to convict a defendant.[5] That is, death-qualified jurors are more likely than non-death-qualified jurors to vote for conviction when assessing the same sets of facts. It is argued that since death-qualified juries overrepresent these groups there is a propensity to render guilty verdicts on cases of any type, including those in which the death penalty is not considered.

There is a lot more out there on the inconsistencies of conviction compared to cases where the death penalty is not involved.

I am not opposed to the idea of death as a method to keep harmful members of society from the public, it is just i cannot think of any method of implementation which is both just and fair. The US system is horrible for example.


I think the biggest improvement to our society today however would be the re-introduction of corporal punishment.

People deemed deserving of such punishments are the ones that commit the sort of crimes where severity of getting caught makes little difference, as they never plan or expect to get caught. A guy who plans on stealing a car is not going to be less likely to steal it, if his potential punishment of x years in prison turns into x years +10 lashes. People like that would just think, 'well, i just have to try extra hard not to get caught!'
 
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Soldato
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I voted yes, only for the more heinous crimes where rehabilitation cannot be performed, fairly sure that the Bulger murders have gone on to re-offend.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we still have the death penalty available for certain crimes (I think treason is one) even though it would probably never be used?
 
Soldato
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we still have the death penalty available for certain crimes (I think treason is one) even though it would probably never be used?

I'll correct you. :)

Hanging, drawing and quartering was often employed. The last treason trial was that of William Joyce, "Lord Haw-Haw", who was executed by hanging in 1946. Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for treason in the UK has been life imprisonment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom
 
Associate
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this times a million, no place in justice or a modern fair society.

Indeed. But apparently in modern society we have room for food poverty, homelessness and a House of Lords that really appreciates a fine young filly of an 8 year old every now and then.

Oh what a time to be progressive!
 
Soldato
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I went with yes, but I'm not without arguments against it.

My main reason for yes is I'd hope it would be a deterrent for some people as nowadays nobody is scared of any punishment we have here. Looking at other countries though it doesn't seem to deter dreadful crimes.

Perhaps prisons need to become much harder and longer for nasty offenders.
 
Soldato
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My main reason for yes is I'd hope it would be a deterrent for some people as nowadays nobody is scared of any punishment we have here. Looking at other countries though it doesn't seem to deter dreadful crimes.

Perhaps prisons need to become much harder and longer for nasty offenders.

The thing is with the sever crimes, criminals dont plan or expect to be caught. Making the punishment more severe wont deter anyone. The key to deterrence on that level of crime is increasing risk!
 
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No death penalty, natural life in prison, there are still mistakes but you can release a living prisoner if a mistake is found.

Pretty much it.

I also think that being stuck in a prison for 50 years is probably more of a deterrent to some criminals than being killed for the crime.
Certainly some terrorists look at death as part of their task and as something that ensures they'll be rewarded in the afterlife.

The death penalty certainly doesn't seem to act as a deterrent in the US, which is about the only real reason for it over prison.
 
Soldato
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How can state sanctioned murder be a correct course of action for any crime ?

Hell no !!!

Why not spend money on rehabilitation, mental illness treatment etc ?
 
Soldato
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The death penalty certainly doesn't seem to act as a deterrent in the US, which is about the only real reason for it over prison.

The reason for this is far less about the death penalty but on these two factors:

1. America's drugs war (Which is a fail) incarcerates an disproportionate amount of it's civilians for drug offences. Most blacks and Hispanics who end up in prison for nothing more than a little weed in their pockets.

2. America uses it's prisoners as a form of slave labour. Forcing them to manufacture things like armoured vests for the military and benign things like car number plates and tins of paint.

So in summation, they have a political self interest in retaining the status-quo. I believe I read that America comprises 4% of the worlds population but 25% of the worlds prison population. No other country on Earth incarcerates more of it's population than the US.
 
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Yes, and I am happy to start practising my knots and hefting sacks of sand if a job's in the offing. Those two kids who knifed the mother and daughter would be a good test of the gallows. Then all traitors who come back to the UK from fighting for IS or others that are against UK national interests in a military fashion whilst enjoying our hospitality. In fact I'd have an orderly queue formed... ;)
 
Soldato
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Voted yes.

While I think the judicial system should be, in order: a deterrent, for rehabilitation and for punishment. Where I think the issue comes it that for some the deterrent isn't enough to stop them committing a crime. Furthermore a deterrent only works up until the point the crime is committed, after that it is then only a question of rehabilitation and punishment. So do I think everyone can be rehabilitated to become a productive member of society? No. Do I think some crimes are heinous enough to warrant the death penalty? Yes.

Edit: Reminds me of the story of the prisoner standing at the gallows and asking the hangman if he believes corporal punishment really works. To which the hangman replies "I don't know but I have never seen anyone up here twice".
 
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Soldato
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Yes, and I am happy to start practising my knots and hefting sacks of sand if a job's in the offing. Those two kids who knifed the mother and daughter would be a good test of the gallows. Then all traitors who come back to the UK from fighting for IS or others that are against UK national interests in a military fashion whilst enjoying our hospitality. In fact I'd have an orderly queue formed... ;)

You're just a bad ass. Run for Office in America, your votes will be many my son.
 
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