Dementia care, advice required please...

DRZ

DRZ

DRZ

Soldato
Joined
2 Jun 2003
Posts
7,636
Location
In the top 1%
Hello folks. Wondering if any of you can provide me with some advice at this quite difficult time...

Basically, my Nan became a bit too frail to live on her own several years ago so the decision was taken that she would move in with my Aunt. As her estate is nowhere near the threshold of being touched by Inheritance Tax, the thought of transferring any assets just didn't occur to them. The house was not sold and still belongs to her.

Anyway, fast forward to last week. My Dad was phoned by his sister to say that my Nan was in a bad way, not recognising who anyone was etc etc. A visit from the Doctor seemed to strongly indicate that it isn't a problem with her medication (as has happened before) and this is the start of the onset of dementia :(

I understand that in order to facilitate the provision of care, the council are within their rights to take possession of my Nan's house, or indeed any assets that have been transferred within the last 7 years.

I also understand that there may be a 'cap' to this value and that any difference is returned to my Nan. If an alternative funding source is provided up to this cap, the house may be retained by my Nan / the family?

Can anyone provide clarification to the above, preferably with evidence (ie relevant links to official sources etc)?

My 2nd question is with regards to obtaining Power of Attorney over her affairs - how exactly does one go about this, and are there any significant pitfalls that the family should be aware of?

I understand that I am posting this in GD, but given the nature of the thread can we please try and maintain a respectful, helpful atmosphere in the thread please?

Thanks a lot :)
 
Hi there

*edit* I've reread your post and realised I haven't exactly answered your questions...I'll try to do that in another post (hopefully this post will be of use to you!).

Sorry to hear about your position, we are just past your position with my Gran so I'll tell you what I can recall (I'm a bit wiped out tonight).

First thing to say is get a second medical opinion! I'm not doctor but from what I've read up on dementia (and seen first hand) you don't just get a bad day and that's the start of it.

It's a gradual onset which can be things like loss of memory or doing slightly odd things, name confusion etc. If it's something that is sudden onset it could be something more serious such as a TIA (small bleed in the brain, a mini stroke basically), the effects of them do pass but they are important to be medicated for.
I'm not dispensing medical advice, just saying if it's as sudden onset as you seem to suggest (or how I've read it) then definitely get a second opinion, often with old people medical issues can be disregarded and put down to general dementia without trying to find a root cause.

Having said that...

If you are thinking that your Nan will need to live in a care home then you need to start looking round for what's available.

A good place to start is carehome.co.uk, that's a really useful site that allows you to look at the reviews of care homes in your area. You want to be looking at the CQC report, it's a detailed PDF which will be on the care home site, it's carried out as an unannounced spot check by inspectors and gives a good indication to the quality of a care home.

Also if you are looking at care homes then it's definitely worth visiting a couple unannounced - do your own spot check to see what they are like on a day to day basis. If they aren't happy to let you in without an appointment then it could be a bad sign.

You also should really get in touch with social services, it's a name that always made me shudder until we dealt with them. They aren't just for dysfunctional families etc. (which is what I always thought) they will help guide you through the process, what your entitlements are, what it expected, what the costs are etc. etc.

The person who helped us was really helpful.

There are lots of options open to you for help including drop in carers during the day if your aunt is having trouble coping.

For more detailed money help it would probably be worth visiting money saving expert.
 
Last edited:
Sorry to hear DRZ, I have been through this with my father and it breaks you down. Firstly may I suggest you ring the Alzheimers society, they were a huge help to our family for all the questions we had.

We got all the information we needed from them regards lasting power of attorney for my dad....

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=154

The financial section of the website...

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=200353

Basically now though he is in care they re-evaluated him and left him with next to sod all. He gets about £20 a week left to himself from his pension and that's it. Luckily he enjoyed his life and didn't break himself to pay a mortgage because that would have gone as well.

You are better off having little in the way of assets, rather than an average joe that's paid for a house all your life.

It will depend on the value of the estate, my grandmother was worth a fair bit and upon sale of her house the interest of her cash pot paid for care, rather than getting it from the state and having her 'wealth' stripped.

Anything else more specific and I can ask my sister, she got the power of attorney for my dad.

As for the cap I'm not sure, because everyone I know that's needed care for dementia has either had little anyway or a partner. IIRC they will leave you with about £16k in the bank, anything over that if fair game. A friend of mine had to move his fathers money about to get in under £16k.

Good Luck :)
 
DRZ said:
I understand that in order to facilitate the provision of care, the council are within their rights to take possession of my Nan's house, or indeed any assets that have been transferred within the last 7 years.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it I don't know if this is a national guideline or up to individual councils to decide themselves but for us the council don't have an automatic right to take possession of the house.

The way it worked was that as she had to go into a care home she would have to self fund it as she had more assets than the council allows for (her own home and more than £23K in the bank I think it was).

She is doing that and the council have strongly suggested it would be a good idea to either sell the house or rent it out to get the income to pay for the home.

After a bit of to and fro the way it's being done now is she is partly self funding and partly council funded and then when the er...time comes...the council will want the amount they have paid into it to be paid back - probably by the sale of the house, that doesn't have to happen until (I think) 47 days after the...errr...time, if you know what I mean.

DRZ said:
My 2nd question is with regards to obtaining Power of Attorney over her affairs - how exactly does one go about this, and are there any significant pitfalls that the family should be aware of?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I'm afraid I can't help with this one, you will certainly need to contact a solicitor though! When it was done for us Gran was fully compus mentus so it wasn't a problem, she went to the solicitors told them what she wanted, they did it, did a few tests on her to make sure she understood what she was doing and wasn't being put under pressure by the family and it was a straight forward process.

If your case if she is losing some of her faculties you definitely need legal advice, there will be a precedent for it of course as it happen when people are suddenly ill or injured but there will be a few hoops to jump through.
 
Thanks for your detailed replies!

To clarify without turning this into a medical thread, her state of mind has been slightly diminishing over time but this has degenerated rapidly recently to the point where it is now beyond simply names and places being confused.

Raymond, I appreciate the need to obtain expert legal advice, however past experience has taught me that showing that you have researched your position thoroughly means that a) your bills are lower / you don't get fleeced and b) you know *exactly* the questions to ask and the outcome that you want. Strolling into a solicitors unprepared is a bad plan.
 
You don't need to see a solicitor for a lasting power of attorney but I would if large amounts of money are involved.

This is exactly how we did it from the alzeimers webiste....

How to make an LPA

There are separate forms for making a property and affairs LPA and a personal welfare LPA. Copies of the blank forms and explanatory leaflets can be obtained from the OPG. Before the LPA is valid, you must have a certificate of capacity drawn up by an independent third party called a Certificate Provider. The Certificate Provider could be your solicitor, your doctor or another independent person that you have known personally for at least two years. A family member, attorney or relative of your attorney cannot be a Certificate Provider. The prescribed form must be completed and signed in the presence of a witness and each attorney must sign to confirm they have read the explanatory information and understand the duties imposed upon them.

In addition, you should list one or more named persons who you wish to be notified of any application to register the LPA. If none are listed then an additional certificate of capacity must be provided.

The form must be registered at the OPG before it can be used. There is a fee for registering each LPA, so if you are registering a property and affairs LPA and a personal welfare LPA, you will have to pay twice. You may be exempt from having to pay the fee if you cannot afford it. The Office of the Public Guardian can advise you.
 
I'm a full time carer for my father who has had dementia for several years, but has only recently been diagnosed with alzheimers.

From what I've learned personally over the last 6 months, the financial side of things can be extremely complex depending on the severity of the dementia.

When my father was first diagnosed, he was referred to social services. They have been brilliant in giving every kind of support on offer, and also giving me information to contact other free services in the area. The local age concern charity and local alzheimers society have been particularly helpful and have provided a wealth of information.

As regards to getting power of attorney, it all depends on how much capacity the person with dementia has to comprehend what is being asked of them, and to make an informed decision about it.

The worse the dementia becomes, the harder it becomes to get power of attorney. I myself am currently talking to a solicitor to visit my father to assess whether or not she thinks he has the capacity to make that decision.

I fear that in your Nan's case that you may not be able to go down that route. If she has lost the capacity to recognise people, then it may be too late to get power of attorney very easily. I have been informed by a solicitor that once a person with dementia gets to the point whereby they can't understand or comprehend what is being asked of them, then the only route for the person trying to get power of attorney is via the court of protection. I've been told that this can cost in the region of £2000 and can take ~7 months.

My best advice is to take advantage of the free services available to you in your area, and gain as much information as you can from them.
 
Gah, my mum went through the same thing, I can't help because I can't really recall but I do remember the house had to be sold and there was little left if anything for mum as my nan went into care, even the majority of the homeware was sold off to go towards my nans care.

Find a good Solicitor to help you a) understand whats what b) make sure the council arn't being pushy or forcing anything that shouldn't be with regards to cover for your nans care.
 
AmTechFox said:
...make sure the council arn't being pushy or forcing anything that shouldn't be with regards to cover for your nans care.
Click to expand...

Exactly this, as I said councils may have varying rules but ours were *very* keen for us to sell the property, we spoke to several people one of whom was very nice and offered us a deferred payment method and said it wasn't something they liked to publicise. :eek:

There are other catches in it, something about interest payments but I can't remember...an important point though!

Research throughly if your best bet!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom