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Did he deserve a ticket?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Chuk_Chuk, 28 Nov 2020.

  1. Chuk_Chuk

    Mobster

    Joined: 12 May 2014

    Posts: 2,760

    I came accross this article on the BBC about learner who got a ticket by an automated red light camera (link).

    But looking at the image I don't think he has done anything to deserve a ticket. (Admittedly he may have reversed after the actual incident)
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/c...0568_e3964399-a74f-4fca-8ab4-07c82d5a830c.jpg

    **Do Not Hotlink Images **

    I wanted to get everyone else opinion. Is it really a ticketable offense to stop over the line at traffic lights?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 28 Nov 2020
  2. MissChief

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Jul 2010

    Posts: 21,031

    The line is the line sadly.
     
  3. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 21,865

    Not sure of exact wording but I think 'to the letter' it's essentially an offence if any part of your car passes the white line once the light has turned red.
     
  4. UnworthyBean

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 15 Jun 2009

    Posts: 2,477

    Do I think they should have been given a ticket? No chance, they were still behind the lights so that they were visible and, despite the terrible photo, it looks like they were well behind any junction that was there.

    If you're following the law to the letter then yes, it's a ticket. Although I think some margin should be given here. It's difficult to claim what they're doing is bad.
     
  5. Chuk_Chuk

    Mobster

    Joined: 12 May 2014

    Posts: 2,760

    Now I (and anyone else who wasn't aware) know. I'm going to be more cautious of the line going forward.
     
  6. Semple

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 5 Mar 2010

    Posts: 8,726

    Whilst that is the law, it is frankly ridiculous, had it been a video camera you'd clearly be able to tell the intention was to stop rather than just jump a set of reds which is what the law is there for.

    With him being a learner and likely new to the car, part of that is learning space awareness and how close your car actually is to a line.

    I do think some common sense should have been applied by the police force here, and glad the judge gave an absolute discharge.
     
  7. thebennyboy

    Mobster

    Joined: 23 Dec 2013

    Posts: 3,462

    Location: North Wales

    I think common sense should have prevailed here and glad it did. If he'd gone blazing through it then 100% should've been ticket, but considering intention to stop was there he should have never been issued a ticket imo. If i was in that position i would also have fought it in court.

    This "to the line" policing is how you teach people to hate the police, it would be like getting a speeding ticket for going 31 in a 30. Whilst it is technically breaking the law a bit of common sense does wonders when it comes to public perception of the police.
     
  8. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,659

    If you do stop over the line, don't move. They are activated by pressure plates I think. As long as you don't move after it activates it won't trigger it.
     
  9. MissChief

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Jul 2010

    Posts: 21,031

    I’ve seen tickets for yellow box infringements given for part of the vehicle overhanging and the tyre not on the yellow box.
     
  10. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,659

    I think someone is actually watching the yellow box ones. But red lights are automated like speed cameras.
     
  11. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 15,143

    indeed , isn't the offence described incorrectly in the article - it's continuing to move over the line when the lights have changed ?
    - so if you skidded to a stop, or stalled straddling the line , you wouldn't be done if you were stopped.
     
  12. Resident

    Mobster

    Joined: 10 Mar 2012

    Posts: 2,734

    I drive buses. Sometimes it's not possible to come to a complete stop SAFELY at the line, occasionally the front of vehicle will stop a foot over the line. I'd rather do that that have some old dear on her arse on the floor from harder braking.
    Obviously I employ the techniques taught to anticipate light changes etc but every so often one will catch me out.
     
  13. ianh

    Soldato

    Joined: 12 Jul 2007

    Posts: 6,091

    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    My friend got a ticket for exactly the same thing - Light on red, stopped about 2ft past the red line - he also disputed it and, as he wasn't "driving through a Red" which is really what the camera is there to catch, he won the dispute before it had to go to court, mainly because the person on the other end used their common sense and agreed with my friend, so it's unfortunate that the Learner in the OP had to go all the way to court for this simple "use your common sense" ruling to be made.

    Not to be too hyperbolic but the idea is that people should be allowed a little leeway during the application of civil rules, for common sense to be applied rather than a small minded "the rule is the rule so I will apply it irrespective of circumstance everytime", and I always think that people who blindly apply rules in such a way are the same sort of people who would happily sign Jews onto Train in Nazi Germany because "I''m just following the rules mate" - Ok maybe that is a tadge hyperbolic :D
     
  14. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,659

    Problem is councils are making money from all these cameras, so they dish out as many fines as they can.
     
  15. Resident

    Mobster

    Joined: 10 Mar 2012

    Posts: 2,734

    Exactly. I got a ticket for a bus lane. I entered it about 10 meters before the end, 2 minutes after it's activation, moving out of the way of an approaching ambulance which was intending on turning right. Council had none of it, despite the ambulance being in the corner of the image.

    I have no problem with these cameras as they serve a real purpose but some common sense to enforcement should be applied
     
  16. amigafan2003

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Jan 2008

    Posts: 18,938

    Location: Fylde Coast, Lancashire

    Although the law has decided it didn't deserve ticket.