Dishwasher real world costs

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iirc kettles are still more efficient than pans when it comes to boiling water. probably due to the time taken to heat the water up. as gas is heating it up it loses more energy over time.

i'm still not sold on boiling water taps. for them to be worth it you would literally need to be using boiling water at least 5 times a day. you can get kettles now which give you a cupful of boiling water on demand too. i think the cost of them plus the running costs aren't worth it unless like i say you constantly need boiling hot water which a lot of people don't need. nobody drinks tea in my house and we already have a coffee machine. the only time we use the kettle is when making pasta or for hot water bottles.

Absolutely this. The problem with heating water in a pan is the surface area issue, vs the ability to add energy.
As things get hotter they will lose heat faster, so a pan with a large surface area and a limited ability to heat will take a lot longer to heat. Plus so much heat is wasted that just goes up and around a pan.
A kettle adds a lot of energy and its basically contained by the thing its heating so the conversion of energy used to heat is way higher.

We had one of the one cup things till recently (it was the 3rd one actually) so we (I) when it stopped working correctly ditched it.
We had a "conversation" at home, I was asked why I bought this horrible slow kettle. "Its not its a 3.1kw one" I said. What was the first thing she did? Fill it to the max line then compain it was taking 6 times longer than the old one cop took.
I tipped most of the water out and left one cup in it, lo and behold it took about 30 seconds just like the one cup. Which coincidentally also had a 3.1kw heating element.
This is the same person who wants to keep the Britta filter in the fridge so the water is at 4 centigrade, and will then complain about the time it takes to boil ;)
 
Caporegime
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Has anyone seen the assembler with James May
Its quite interesting watching and listening to the things he says

For anyone unfamiliar he has an already disassembled item and puts it back together
Typically quite old items

He said something quite interesting in one of the recent episodes (recent to me, not sure when actually broadcast), he was rebuilding an old food mixer and said along the lines of the egyptians were basically doing this process thousands of years ago, ie its perfected, bu if you dropped your smartphone into the loo you should just go and get a new one as they will be better.
Which when you think about it makes sense, for lots of things they moved on massively and then incrementally very slowly, washing machines, lawn mowers etc are really not that different, but tech items are still changing significantly and do things noticably better each generation. When things are changing a lot you should throw them away and get a better newer one when they break.

Yeah I'm looking at a new washing machine. The one I have currently is a cheap £100-200 jobbie that came with the house. I thought I'll use it until it breaks and it hasn't broken. When I have been looking at replacements I can see a really good one for £X amount with a 5 year warranty. I then see another top of the range one for 2 times £X amount with a 10 year warranty. So I pay double and get double the warranty. I thought why bother? Surely you want to pay half then if it breaks in say 6 years time outwith warranty. You will then have 5 years more R&D to choose from and much better tech.

it's like that guy in here with 2 x pioneer kuro plasmas. he's missing out on HDR, 4K, bigger screens, energy savings, OLED, etc. it's better to spend less and upgrade more often than buy once spending 2-3 times as much and keep for 15 years as tech moves on.
 
Soldato
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Yeah I'm looking at a new washing machine. The one I have currently is a cheap £100-200 jobbie that came with the house. I thought I'll use it until it breaks and it hasn't broken. When I have been looking at replacements I can see a really good one for £X amount with a 5 year warranty. I then see another top of the range one for 2 times £X amount with a 10 year warranty. So I pay double and get double the warranty. I thought why bother? Surely you want to pay half then if it breaks in say 6 years time outwith warranty. You will then have 5 years more R&D to choose from and much better tech.

with a washing machine, a more expensive one may wash the clothes creating less wear and tear on the garments (eg. aggressive agitation, rough drum, fewer drum holes) -
so, a different take on efficiency; probably not a concern for a dish washer, or maybe a TV (unless the led HDR 1500 nits damages your eyes)
a quick google with some substantiation Samsung washing machine making holes in my tops
 
Soldato
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with a washing machine, a more expensive one may wash the clothes creating less wear and tear on the garments (eg. aggressive agitation, rough drum, fewer drum holes) -
so, a different take on efficiency; probably not a concern for a dish washer, or maybe a TV (unless the led HDR 1500 nits damages your eyes)
a quick google with some substantiation Samsung washing machine making holes in my tops

But it does make a nice little tune when the cycle ends :D

We have a Samsung (switched to an inverter motor which is far quieter) and haven't had the clothes wear issue but did have to buy a little air trap device for the water inlet to stop it causing the pipes making a right clatter, seems to be another common issue plenty of videos on youtube for both Samsung and LG.

Sure I read somewhere that some of the damage caused to clothes is due to the machines using less water, seems a bit of a backward step that I'd rather use more water than worry about my clothes being damaged. Efficiency shouldn't hamper usability.
 
Caporegime
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with a washing machine, a more expensive one may wash the clothes creating less wear and tear on the garments (eg. aggressive agitation, rough drum, fewer drum holes) -
so, a different take on efficiency; probably not a concern for a dish washer, or maybe a TV (unless the led HDR 1500 nits damages your eyes)
a quick google with some substantiation Samsung washing machine making holes in my tops

that thread is back from 2015 and that model is no longer made.

plus the machine I'm looking at is £800 vs a £1600 one. do you think it's worth paying £1600 for the 10 year warranty vs the £800 and 5 year? i mean i would expect an £800 machine to be top of the line. most sell for around £100-£400.
 
Soldato
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Yes agree would not pay £1600 for 10 year warranty if the functionality was similar to the £800 one, and afaik there has been no major technology evolution for last ten years,
just direct drive motors (that seem to have some teething problems) so cannot see the two machines at this level being much different,
but also, I do not think technology will have moved on in a further 5 years; investing £800 to pay for replacement in the unlikely event it only lasted 5 years would be my choice.

It is difficult to discern if they do now build washing machines to only last 5 years, versus their more robust predecessors though.
[Asko/swedish machine I had lasted 20 years, but on average only used twice a week, and was a top loader horizontal drum, so no mechanical failure vs questionably more convenient side door.]

I'd rather use more water than worry about my clothes being damaged
good point - less lubrication more friction - so the CE constraints on energy/water consumption have just boosted the clothing industry, together with its ironic, massive water consumption for producing coton (I forget we are meant to wear jute or bamboo)
 
Caporegime
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Based on my personal experience alone, I'd say a lot of people need extention leads that are longer than what the shops sell.
In general though, it's the simplest and most commonly encountered instance of wiring something up, pretty much a foundation skill from which one extrapolates.
For example, I knew how to wire a mains plug, so simply read the diagram and extended my skill to wiring up a six pin connector on my motorcycle... and then repaired someone's headlight connector... and later on almost completely rewired an entire vehicle.
It's not just the knowledge and ability, but the confidence to take it further as well. Same for many other things that people are ignoring these days.

And from my personal experience It's a "skill" that's so rarely needed it's really not an issue not knowing how to do it. if you're not interested rewiring a car then why not pay someone else to do the work so you can do something you want to do?

I never learned to drive or ride, until I was no longer living in London. In fact, many places are still perfectly viable without a personal vehicle.

Exactly. If you don't need to do it then why do you need to "know" how to do it.

No more than you should "despair" at the young folk who also cannot, usually because their life choices negate the need for such things.

Exactly. If you don't need to do it then why do you need to "know" how to do it.

The whole point of my argument, yet many people seem to complain daily on here about "millennials" not being able to do things, things they don't/rarely ever need to do any more.


It is a service that is seeing widespread use, yes... but even young folk undertake cash in hand work - Probably a lot more than the oldies, actually. People sell things for cash on eBay and at car boot sales. People make a lot of use of in-branch services and the queues are as long as they've always been. Loads of things you cannot do online.

Just because people still do some things doesn't mean not being able to other related things isn't an issue. For many things online banking is pretty much a requirement. Young people can do both, many older people can only do one. The point being is generally people don't complain constantly about older people not being able to do it.

TBH there's a reason One Foot in the Grave was thought up and became so popular. It's a stereotype, but unfortunately it seems as we get older we do seem to get grumpier. :(
 
Soldato
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~~

Plus, if your other half is like mine, at least the dishwasher rinses the bloody pots and doesn't leave them full of soap residue that you can taste.

Not so bad with certain things but with cups/glasses this is a pain, it means I end up swilling out every cup before I use it.

Personally I prefer doing it by hand, I can’t stand holding/sing glasses that have been dishwasher cleaned as they’re so annoyingly squeaky!

The only problem for me is if I wash by hand I go overboard and use way more water than is needed. Anything to save feeling that squeak though!
 
Soldato
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if you're not interested rewiring a car then why not pay someone else to do the work so you can do something you want to do?
Depends...
- Can you afford someone else to do it?
- Can you find someone who will do your little bit of "work"?
- Are you being ripped off?

For example - If they even took the job on, I wonder what a fully qualified electrician would normally charge for rewiring your plug... and how much it'd cost you if they wanted to take the ****?

Most of the time my skills have developed from seeing what other people charge and deciding they can **** right off - Even right now, I'm learning some woodwork stuff, because I'm not paying someone else £150 for something in cheap plywood that costs £10 to make from solid English oak!

Exactly. If you don't need to do it then why do you need to "know" how to do it.
Because knowing it more often opens your options up, especially with things that are (or perhaps were, nowadays) regarded as pretty common, basic skills.
I don't *need* to drive or ride even now, really, but I can get places much faster, carry more stuff in single trips, assist friends, save money and even get jobs that were previously closed to me
Similarly, I don't *need* to know how to wash up or do the laundry, but my life is SO much more peaceful if I do...!!

Exactly. If you don't need to do it then why do you need to "know" how to do it.
But then that swings both ways, where people's lack of knowledge about things lead to the negating of them, or the removal of any opportunity to do them if one wanted.

Besides - Needs also change, usually at very inopportune moments. This is why we have things like breakdown companies being called out to change people's punctured wheels or put in the fuel/oil/coolant fluid the owner "didn't know how to"...

The whole point of my argument, yet many people seem to complain daily on here about "millennials" not being able to do things, things they don't/rarely ever need to do any more.
I grew up learning to be self-sufficient as a matter of personal pride, though - You don't have to be amazing at anything, but you should be able to do the basics for yourself.
So for me the 'despair' is in the pride they take in their wilful ignorance, like it's fashionable to be a clueless, good-for-nothing retard whose only skill is posting pictures of their turds on Farcebook and *******...!
Doesn't matter if it's boiling an egg, opening a bank account, writing a covering letter, changing a plug, tying your shoes or wiping your own arse... and even then, it's probably all on Google, but these poor little millenials purposely won't even make the effort to look it up.

Their life choices negate the need for knowing many things, because they have chosen a disposable culture and in many cases it's slowly robbing us of our opportunity to do these things if we want.

Similarly, many of the skilled staff at our workplace have been negated because the young management with their infinite 'wisdom' and college degrees decided "we don't know what it is so the company obviously don't need it any more and we can always just pay someone else to do it"... except that no-one else knows how it works, or where it is, what it was called or why we used to do it... and now we're properly ******, because we got rid of those who did know.

For many things online banking is pretty much a requirement.
Like what?
I can't think of any...

TBH there's a reason One Foot in the Grave was thought up and became so popular. It's a stereotype, but unfortunately it seems as we get older we do seem to get grumpier. :(
Not really.
Like I said, I was 'despairing' at how clueless young people were getting before I even left school my own self... and I don't consider myself a particularly capable person either... just able to cope with the basics, which should say all I need to about those who can't/won't.
 
Soldato
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Just out of interest, how long does a basic, typical wash take with these machines? I use one at work pretty much constantly throughout the day and it is normally set at a 54 second or 74 second cycle. Also, do domestic dishwashers use 2 chemicals eg detergent and rinse aid and are they on liquid form or solid? Toying with the idea of getting one next year as we will be having our second child in March.
 
Man of Honour
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never understood dishwashers, surely in the time you spend loading and unloading you could hand wash them anyway

How long does it take you to load? At the very least it is much quicker and also many times more hygienic.

I wouldn't be without mine. Don't even notice the cost.
 
Caporegime
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@ttaskmaster

But where do we draw the line on “self-sufficiency” and knowing outdated “common skills”?

Knowing how to ride a horse was pretty essential in the past, knitting your own clothes, using the aforementioned loom to weave your own fabric. Perhaps forging your own metal tools?

For many those are just as irrelevant as many of the skills people are moaning about the younger generation not knowing how to do, while completely ignoring the fact that many younger people have replaced those skills they rarely/never need with skills that they actually do need day to day. If someone has never needed to change a plug in 30 years why do they need to know how to do it? What if the time it took to learn that was used instead to learn to code? Which is more relevant in today’s world?

You can’t learn everything, you need to prioritise. There’s little point prioritising skills that are just not needed now over skills that are potentially needed on a daily basis.

Older people didn’t learn to drive, because they didn’t need to. They prioritised other skills instead. That doesn’t mean they aren’t as skilled in general, just skilled in different things.

As I mentioned before the reality is this is not a new argument. This is an argument that has probably been ongoing since language first evolved. The older generation complaining about the willful ignorance of the “youth” because they don’t know some things the older generation do, while the younger generation learned new things.

TBH this argument is just an argument against progress. If every new generation learned everything the older generation knew then they would never have time to learn new skills and progress society.

And as for the last paragraph. Some people are just old before their time. I know a fair few personally like that. ;)
 
Soldato
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I'm an old git who is pretty handy at various things, mechanical, electrical. I can't believe there are people who consider 'washing up' to be some kind of skill that should never be lost by future generations. :D
 
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