Dishwasher real world costs

Soldato
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There is also a zen aspect to doing the work and doing it well, stacking dishes expertly on the drainer and tidying away afterwards.
Rewarding your partner by recognising his/her skill in providing the meal.
Washing up during meal preparation minimises it at the end.

However if it suits your life, get one.

This. I have one, rarely if ever, use it. In fact I'm pretty sure it's just serving a extra storage space.

If I have people round or are entertaining I'd probably pop it on but other than that. Cleaning dishes by hand isn't rocket science :rolleyes: and I tend to collect the water that's ran until it's hot to either drink or rinse with so as not to be wasteful.

Nothing more annoying than needing a certain piece of kitchenware and finding it's been sat in the dishwasher for 3 days straight and is now caked rock solid :p

Each to our own.

Varies but chopping boards, knives, peelers, blender/processor, tins & packets, worktops... Sure they don't take long but why not do them while I'm not doing anything else.

Not doing much extravagant cooking at the moment as I don't have time but its a bit of a hobby for me so I like to use all the pans and make a mess :D

Same as you, the only things I have to wash after eating is the plate & cutlery I've used.
 
Soldato
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Yeah they are correct the options are 54/74/120 seconds on the hood. Anything really caked on like the gravy pots we use we will put it on a 120 second cycle.
Thankyou I have learned something, found a video of one pro device
How a commercial dishwasher works

I can't believe there are people who consider 'washing up' to be some kind of skill
..yes it is just commonsense .. cleanest most delicate items first, greasy stuff last, don't damage the knives, and multi-tasking to ensure stuff is being pre-soaked .. and a double sink helps

while completely ignoring the fact that many younger people have replaced those skills they rarely/never need with skills that they actually do need day to day
However, in the UK, as evidenced by declining productivity, could we say that the skills being learned are not the right ones ?
but, that maybe beyond their control, and moreover the older generations fault.
 
Soldato
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Washing pots is a complete and utter ball ache that, frankly, if you don't have an issue with then you have too much free time and not enough hobbies. I'd have one in a heart beat.
 
Caporegime
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However, in the UK, as evidenced by declining productivity, could we say that the skills being learned are not the right ones ?
but, that maybe beyond their control, and moreover the older generations fault.

Well if millenials were responsible for the financial crisis and Brexit then perhaps you’d have more evidence to back up that hypothesis? :p

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-productivity-growth-latest-sink-stagnation-decade-public-finances-economy-second-quarter-wages-a7986111.html

Ironically those major events are more associated with the older generations. :p

And yeah, I agree. Washing up isn’t exactly a skill. Next we’ll be told personal hygiene is a skill that’s “dying out” because people don’t shave as much, or wear shirts on days off any more. :D
 
Soldato
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Just out of interest, how long does a basic, typical wash take with these machines? I use one at work pretty much constantly throughout the day and it is normally set at a 54 second or 74 second cycle. Also, do domestic dishwashers use 2 chemicals eg detergent and rinse aid and are they on liquid form or solid? Toying with the idea of getting one next year as we will be having our second child in March.

Mine is about two hours on eco mode (including the drying time), "normal" is a bit less. The newer machines will be quicker and still use less energy though, I'm pretty sure my parents' Bosch one doesn't take anywhere near that long.

You need dishwasher salt, rinse aid and detergent of some kind (usually tablets) although the fancier tablets have salt action so I don't use salt with mine as my water seemingly doesn't require it anyway. As long as you set the machine properly to the level of water hardness in your area, it mostly figures the rest out for itself.
 
Soldato
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But where do we draw the line on “self-sufficiency” and knowing outdated “common skills”?
Knowing how to ride a horse was pretty essential in the past, knitting your own clothes, using the aforementioned loom to weave your own fabric. Perhaps forging your own metal tools?
Nope, nope and nope.
Horses were ******* expensive and having one for riding was even more so, ie Ferrari money.
Weaving was done by weavers, forging was done by blacksmiths, and all manner of work was done by those who gave their trades to our surnames (Taylor, Thatcher, Cooper, etc etc). Only those who couldn't afford such services had to do it themselves or go without, and most services were sensibly priced.

However, as time progressed and education improved, practical skills became more accessible to people who could then do certain things themselves, particularly as trade guilds lost a lot of their power. Many people learned 'trade secrets' off their relatives, which is where you started to get women doing the Man-Jobs even though the guilds did not admit them for training.
A combination of advancing technology and a couple of World Wars made even more of that accessible. It culminated in the whole DIY culture, once more striking the balance between DIY capability and tradesman affordability.

For many those are just as irrelevant as many of the skills people are moaning about the younger generation not knowing how to do, while completely ignoring the fact that many younger people have replaced those skills they rarely/never need with skills that they actually do need day to day.
They only 'don't need' those skills because they don't go places where they'd need 'em. Kinda like any of the skills used in camping - Don't leave your house, don't need them... although saying that, I have used some of mine during power cuts.

If someone has never needed to change a plug in 30 years why do they need to know how to do it?
You're absolutely right.
Haven't ever needed it, so obviously never will.
Exactly the mentality that has our company up the creek. Good one.

What if the time it took to learn that was used instead to learn to code? Which is more relevant in today’s world?
Pfft. What use is coding?
You don't need coding. You need management. Everyone is a manager these days. Once the code is written, that's it and it's all done by people in China. You don't need coders. You need management and makers of reality TV shows. That's what society is today. That and salespeople, if you're not smart enough to be a manager.

You can’t learn everything, you need to prioritise. There’s little point prioritising skills that are just not needed now over skills that are potentially needed on a daily basis.
You should be able to maintain your own home and your own life, even at a basic level. Paying other people to do everything for you just means you're overpaid... especially if you then whine about the workmanship of a now-dying trade.

Older people didn’t learn to drive, because they didn’t need to. They prioritised other skills instead. That doesn’t mean they aren’t as skilled in general, just skilled in different things.
Young people don't need to learn driving, either. No-one who lives in a city needs to drive, because public transport is so good these days and so well connected.... (!!)
And yet, it was always the old people telling me I really ought to have my licence by now...

TBH this argument is just an argument against progress. If every new generation learned everything the older generation knew then they would never have time to learn new skills and progress society.
Half of this is NOT progress though.... unless you live your life by EA and Ubisoft business practice, ie coming up with new things for the sake of it, rather than because they actually make life better.
A good percentage of what you think is progress is just solutions to problems that didn't exist, for the purposes of making money.

I can't believe there are people who consider 'washing up' to be some kind of skill that should never be lost by future generations. :D
Find something that isn't dishwasher safe and get a future generation to hand-wash it, then... !!
 
Caporegime
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Mine is about two hours on eco mode (including the drying time), "normal" is a bit less. The newer machines will be quicker and still use less energy though, I'm pretty sure my parents' Bosch one doesn't take anywhere near that long.

You need dishwasher salt, rinse aid and detergent of some kind (usually tablets) although the fancier tablets have salt action so I don't use salt with mine as my water seemingly doesn't require it anyway. As long as you set the machine properly to the level of water hardness in your area, it mostly figures the rest out for itself.

you don't need much dishwasher salt in Glasgow. Our water is pretty good. my machine tells you once it's ran out. been 14 months so far and still using the same stuff i chucked in it. rinse aid needs regular filling though but you can get it pretty cheap these days if you stay away from big brand names. powerball tablets you get enough to do 1000 washes for like a tenner in B & M.
 
Soldato
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what happens if you do not use enough salt - is it just visible limescale on glasses and internally on the heating element ... is non-reversible etching of glasses(or porcelain) a thing of the past ?

A trade-off ? Household washing/cleaning devices (eg. condenser driers, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, irons ) that can uncesessarily damage the material , for the return of electricity/resource economy, operation time, manufacturing cost
 
Soldato
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Soft water has multiple benefits, detergents are far more effective in soft water for one. It can also help prevent the scaling up and damage of the appliance.

Buy a cheap bag of soda crystals from the supermarket/Wilko and try putting some in the washing machine, you can use less wash powder/liquid and it also keeps the machine clean and free from smells and scale. Magic stuff, you can also use it in the dishwasher.

You can tell if your water is particularly hard with the soap test, if it's really difficult to get soap to sud-up in your hands when using water out of the tap then you have hard water, which is also why some people who wet shave really struggle getting a decent lather on their face.
 
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I have no dishwasher and think in the end it is for laziness..............
Everyone has to wash his parts once he's finished with eating. That's fair.
Leaving something dirty after eating, not ok.


never understood dishwashers, surely in the time you spend loading and unloading you could hand wash them anyway

There are multiple reasons everyone has to have the individual culture to do it him/herself, instead of waiting for someone else or a machine/robot to do it instead of them.
 
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Soldato
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With regards to the changing a plug, I do think everyone should learn that basic skill, and other basic skills (changing a light switch, fitting a light etc) they are things that will serve you well as a homeowner etc or to help others out. I put a TV on our bedroom wall, and there was a plug socket was in a cupboard behind the wall which would save having a dangling wire down the wall, so rather than drill a gigantic hole for no reason, I just drilled a small hole enough for the cable, cut the (moulded!) plug off, fed wire through, and re-connected it on the other end, simple but something others should learn too.

We have a Bosch 9kg washing machine, recently bought it (upgraded from a Beko 7kg) they are extremely efficient but yes it does come at a cost of time, programmes that may have took 2 and a half hours, as an example, if you want it to be ultra-eco, they will take 4 and a half hours... Which is no bother to a lot of people as you can have it going when you are at work so the time would not matter so much, you can always use a quicker program but just be mindful it uses more energy/water.
It came with a 2 year warranty, but I paid extra for another 3 years directly from Bosch (£99) I may be a mug for doing that, but I felt it was worthwhile as the washing machine was quite expensive.
 
Caporegime
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never understood dishwashers, surely in the time you spend loading and unloading you could hand wash them anyway

I can manually wind my window down in the same time it takes for an electric one to operate. Why bother with electric windows?

One word: Convenience.

Same goes for a dishwasher, i'd rather not stand at the sink scrubbing dirty dishes.
 
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I can manually wind my window down in the same time it takes for an electric one to operate. Why bother with electric windows?

One word: Convenience.

Same goes for a dishwasher, i'd rather not stand at the sink scrubbing dirty dishes.

You waste time, energy and money.
Time needed for washing your dish manually is less than 1 minute. 1 minute!
Water needed for washing your own dish manually is less than 300-400 ml.
 
Caporegime
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You waste time, energy and money.
Time needed for washing your dish manually is less than 1 minute. 1 minute!
Water needed for washing your own dish manually is less than 300-400 ml.

Only if you ate ready-meals, i would like to see you wash and rinse several pans, two plates associated glasses and cutlery in less than a pint of water, if so i feel you have a bright future ahead as a pan washer.
 
Soldato
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Maybe he only has one dish and lives on instant noodles?

If you have a lifestyle that doesn't generate much washing up then a dishwasher isn't going to a make much sense.

Expecting that to apply to everyone else is daft.
 
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Only if you ate ready-meals, i would like to see you wash and rinse several pans, two plates associated glasses and cutlery in less than a pint of water, if so i feel you have a bright future ahead as a pan washer.

It isn't that difficult as you make it sound..... Several pans can actually be just one. Not that much water is needed for all the necessary additional forks, knife maybe, spoons, glasses, cups, etc.

Imagine how much resources (people, energy, money, water, etc) is needed to manufacture your dishwasher on its own.
 
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Caporegime
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It isn't that difficult as you make it sound..... Several pans can actually be just one. Not that much water is needed for all the necessary additional forks, knife maybe, spoons, glasses, cups, etc.

Imagine how much resources (people, energy, money, water, etc) is needed to manufacture your dishwasher on its own.

They are mass produced in countries with cheap energy and labour, etc.

It's the most efficient way to wash dishes. There is no way you can wash everything to the same standard as a dishwasher manually and be more efficient.

If so please upload a video for us to see this marvel
 
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They are mass produced in countries with cheap energy and labour, etc.

Uhh? :confused: Energy costs to the Planet the same everywhere on Earth. It isn't surrounded by borders and areas where it is more expensive or cheaper.
And if dishwashers are indeed manufactured in countries with extremely low salaries and extremely high profits for their oligarchs, it is one more reason NOT TO BUY them :D

It's the most efficient way to wash dishes.

The most efficient way to wash dishes is immediately AFTER finishing your eating.
Before waiting for millions of bacteria and other microorganisms on the dishes to have their feast :D
 
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