Do you think the western world is becoming harder to live in?

[TW]Fox;21868243 said:
Could somebody working 37.5 hours a week in a minimum wage-style job in 1989 have afforded a mortgage at over 15% interest?
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No but they would have been much better off.
Average wage back then, even not long ago was
£7,975
And the house price was
£35k
So around 4 times the average salary, look it now with salary of £25k and house prices of £190k that's 7 times the salary.

Unemployment was 50% higher in 1982..?
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And we are heading that way now with current predictions.
 
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[TW]Fox;21868243 said:
Could somebody working 37.5 hours a week in a minimum wage-style job in 1989 have afforded a mortgage at over 15% interest?

Perhaps much of it is about a change in society? I'd imagine in the 80's few people purchased a property alone. Most were joint mortgages with a partner. Now everyone seems to think that buying a house alone is something everyone should be able to afford?
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the mortgage rates were (comparitively) ridiculous. the average family didn't have the money for fancy electrical gadgets or cars (also comparitevely ridiculous) wasn't a mk2 golf 1.2 c something like £6k way back in 1985?
 
But surely the lifestyle we all enjoy is a sham. Goods bought on credit, people not saving, government debt, energy problems, property bubble, unemployment etc.
 
RomanNose said:
No but they would have been much better off.
Average wage back then, even not long ago was
£7,975
And the house price was
£35k
So around 4 times the average salary, look it now with salary of £25k and house prices of £190k that's 7 times the salary.
Click to expand...

Ok, lets take your figures and run with them and see if this is really true. We'll assume your salary/house price figures are accurate.

We'll assume a 20% deposit in each case.

2012: £152k 35 year mortgage at 3.5% (3% above base rate)

£628 a month. So, just over 25% of pre-tax salary in 2012.

Lets go back to 1982 where the base rate was 13%.

1982: £38k 35 year mortgage at 16.5% (3% above base rate)

£386 a month. But the average pretax salary per month by your figures is only £666 a month! So the mortgage repayments take up HALF the pre-tax salary of the person in 1982 despite the house costing much less as a factor of the persons wage.

You think thats better off?
 
[TW]Fox;21868483 said:
Ok, lets take your figures and run with them and see if this is really true. We'll assume your salary/house price figures are accurate.

We'll assume a 20% deposit in each case.

2012: £152k 35 year mortgage at 3.5% (3% above base rate)

£628 a month. So, just over 25% of pre-tax salary in 2012.

Lets go back to 1982 where the base rate was 13%.

1982: £38k 35 year mortgage at 16.5% (3% above base rate)

£386 a month. But the average pretax salary per month by your figures is only £666 a month! So the mortgage repayments take up HALF the pre-tax salary of the person in 1982 despite the house costing much less as a factor of the persons wage.

You think thats better off?
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Obviously not. Didn't realize that the base rate would have that much of an impact though. Would be interesting to see food and fuel price comparison though.
 
RomanNose said:
Obviously not. Didn't realize that the base rate would have that much of an impact though. Would be interesting to see food and fuel price comparison though.
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i passed my driving test in 1997 and fuel was 67-70p a litre depending where you went. i have no idea what it was 15 yrs previous though.
 
Compared to when?

Its only becoming harder to live in because of the amount of debt due to people borrowing too much and free give aways.


Scrapping benefits, immigration and loans would soon sort the country out. England/Western world needs a dose of Hitler (just without all the racism)
 
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RomanNose said:
Obviously not. Didn't realize that the base rate would have that much of an impact though. Would be interesting to see food and fuel price comparison though.
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Lets do fuel price.

1982: 38.32p a litre (Adjusted for inflation this is actually 118p or so a litre)
2012: 137.9p a litre

So, fuel costs more, right? Right. But do we spend more on fuel than we did in 1982?

Lets look at the average family car in 1982. A few year old Mk2 Ford Escort 1.6. It averaged about 30mpg, tops.

In 2012, a used Focus 1.6 has a combined consumption figure of 42.2mpg

So, assuming 10k a year..

1982: £48 a month (This is 8% of the pretax salary per month you said)
1982 inflation adjusted: £148 a month
2012: £124 a month (thats about 6% of the pretax salary per month you said)

So it doesn't seem we spend more per month on mortgages than in 1982, nor fuel..
 
Spit said:
But not for our infinite growth capitalist economy!
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How can you have infinite growth on a finite planet.
The longer you leave it the bigger the **** storm will be when it crumbles round your ears.
I am half inclined to believe that is what this 2012 conspiracy is all about, the system engineered to fail so that we can start again.
Not sure I want to be around when it does though
 
I'd say it's compounded by virtue of the stress we are under in daily life. You need to earn a good wage to live with any sense of luxury/enjoyment (as the world perceives it), the employment market is ridiculously competitive so you need to push yourself harder there, housing prices and general food/bills/etc are getting stupid, and once you're in that rut, it's really hard to get out. My wife and I bring in over £60K between us, we own a 3 bed semi, 2 old hot hatches, have a couple of cats and can't afford to save at the moment.

It saddens me that if I was 10 years older (i.e. was where I am now but 10 years ago), I'd have a much better house, likely lower mortgage repayments, and a little more money to play with at the end of the month.

I feel like a total slave, and am getting to the point where I want to jack it all in and live somewhere more conducive to a relaxed lifestyle before I become a statistic when I hit 45. All the nice **** I own is starting to seem less and less appealing as I realise what owning it ultimately means.
 
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