Does the XFX HD5850 1gb unlock to 5870?

[Armageus]

I don’t personally want to just waste good power supplies like this one and like I did with my seasonic on graphic cards that would run off 350w meaning spending more then I needed to on a power supply

It's not a waste to buy a quality brand power supply - continually buying stuff without any actual idea of what you really want (despite several people telling you it's a bad idea) - that's a waste.

The cores matter because they are part of the perfoemance which usually higher the number means better graphically

Cores being higher makes no difference graphically. Performance is a combination of things - core count, clock speed, architecture (e.g. "work done" - think Core2Duo vs Pentium 4), memory bandwidth. Having more of something e.g. cores or bandwidth isn't necessarily better, if it becomes bottlenecked elsewhere (hence why a 1080Ti doesn't have a 64bit memory bus - the amount of Cores it has require a large amount of bandwidth to keep them busy).

the interface matters because it determines how the memory performance is utilised, I have experienced 64bit, 128bit and 256bit and I do notice the difference

No - there is no way you can specifically notice a difference. You can notice the difference from a faster card, but that is a result of architecture improvement, nothing to do with what size memory bus. Bus sizes are generally decreasing where possible due to cost and advances in technology:- having a wider bus, means having more traces on the PCB, and more memory modules, both of which increase complexity and cost; each newer generation of GDDR runs faster and typically transfers more times per clock; Memory compression technology has been implemented by both AMD and NVIDIA and continues to evolve, to make better use of whatever physical bandwidth is available.

If bandwidth was all that mattered, then you should look at buying a Radeon 2900XT - that had a 512-bit memory bus, so must be better!

but what does the 1030 having 2gb matter? Can it actually use it?

Having more VRAM means you can use higher quality textures - even "older" games have settings that can make use of it. 2GB has been mainstream since around 2012.

again I don’t want a 30w card, I want something that will actually be good for gaming

You have to get out of this mindset - power usage has nothing to do with performance. A 75Watt 1050Ti that has no power connector absolutely crushes your 5850. Newer high end cards draw less that older high end cards - the market is only going one way, manufacturers face pressure to reduce power consumption, both from environmental legislation, but also financial e.g. to reuse products across various markets e.g. desktop, laptop, mobile, games consoles.

Don’t quite understand this? You say the 560 is better because it basically has double the shaders, but you implied about cuda core count not mattering? If I’m not mistaken the shader count for amd is what cuda count is to nvidia so with that said why would the 550 be terrible?

I didn't say that cuda core count didn't matter at all. The fact is though that a 384 core Geforce 1030 performs better than a 8 year old 1440 core Radeon 5850. The reasons why I've touched on above - faster clock speed, architecture improvements, memory compression, more VRAM.

The issue with the Radeon RX550 vs RX560 is that if you are spending £80 on a 550, it is worth spending the extra £20 to get double the performance from a 560. An RX550 isn't much quicker than a GT1030, but the Geforce range doesn't suffer so much as the pricing is better spread out - the 1030 is £60, and a 1050 that is likely double the performance is £110 or so.

i get bored of the same parts though hence why i chose this old radeon, all this talking and browsing i havent even played a game yet lol

What is there to get bored of? Graphics Cards aren't Pokemon - you haven't got to catch them all?

Surely it's as simple as:
is it fast enough? no
can I afford/justify something better? yes/no

Most of us have to settle for whatever we can afford. The "best" graphics card I have in my house is a 270X - is it fast enough? probably not. Can I justify anything better? No - as the low-mid range new cards haven't really moved on from what I have, and I can't justify spending £100 on a 5 year old card that does.

as for getting hung up on those criteria specs, every time i look on this site or read reviews whether its professionals or other forums about graphic cards, those categories seem to be high on the conversation regardless of my own experiences when it comes to comparisons, mean why would a 1080ti need over 300bit interface if apparently 64bit is enough?

Covered above - but a 1080ti has more cores, and needs to keep them busy. If a 384-bit bus made everything instantly better, then every card would come with one. It's about what is appropriate for each card within the range in order to keep price/performance relatively similar regardless of your budget. Sometimes manufacturers get it wrong - e.g. the RX550 above - sacrifices were made to the number of cores to sell it to a lower segment, but it's still arguably too expensive for the target market (given that twice the performance normally costs twice as much e.g. RX560->RX570 or 1050->1060 pricing)

 

[ExoMale]

Is the 7770 ghz edition 1gb a much better graphics card? I know it’s 2 generations newer, but doesn’t always mean better.

Reason I ask is someone who was selling a 970 I missed on is also selling that 7770 aswell, it has a plain ghost cooler(guess that’s original?) and is up for £20

 

[ExoMale]

Oh and haven’t read all your reply above, but for the going against advise is down to a simple of what’s available around me for collection as I don’t and some cases can’t buy online even private sales nor do I always have the money for such things, I buy for right now unless it can only be ordered, I don’t regret all my purchases, I’m just a part time worker at the minute so make the most of what I can.

Someone who selling the 7770 has an asrock H81M-HDS for £20, but they have a G3220 for £45 which I feel is too much and is only a dual core, nothing like what my i3 was and I would have to sell my veriton with my supernova to fund a better system which I don’t really want to do as it’s a quality psu

 

[iB CoMpL3XiTy]

Not much point in changing from a HD5850 to a HD7770, though if its a 2GB model and you can sell your 5850 for close to £20 then it's probably worth it. Otherwise just save up what you can and buy something you're going to be happy with.

 

[ExoMale]

Haha, yeah we'd all love a powerful gaming card for cheap! Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, performance is relative, previous high end cards become mid range and then low end, they're less efficient and no longer have driver support or the latest features, plus no warranty usually.

I love overclocking, wouldn't matter what card I had I'd still overclock it, however overclocking a low end card is like polishing a turd, it's still a turd.

What I mean by getting hung up on specifics is that it's inconsequential, if the bus is 32 or 512bit who cares aslong as the performance is there( that's an extreme example but you get the jist) people on forums talk about it because they're enthusiasts and want to show the world their epeen, for the average gamer all that matters is frame rates.
As for the 1080Ti needing over 300bit bus, well it's a ultra high end card designed with 4k gaming with high settings, it has specs specifically for that purpose, the 1030 has specs to suit it's requirements as a htpc/media card perhaps with some light gaming.

What has the 5850 got, is it 256 bit? And many more cores but still slower than a 1030, that's generations of architecture improvements. Performance is king.

1. what cards do you class as a turd? i didnt buy this radeon to try max things out, it just about plays the division decently, but plays anno 2205 better than the 5770 did, recently installed rbs6, but not tried it yet, i paid a tenner more than i shouldve, but it wasnt a bad choice, havent tried to overclock it yet.

2. i know the powerful for cheap isnt always possible, but it depends what your after on those terms, i dont look to expect 970 performance from something that cost like £20, i look at game specs and hope to be powerful enough to play the games well at 1080

3. im am the average gamer, but i dont get too hung up on fps, i like to know the figure to mention it in conversations or selling points and to generally to see what the number is to compare between card purchases, my system averaged 25fps on the division benchmark on low @ fullscreen 1080 lol, not like that in actual game though, its lower.

4. yeah it has a 256bit, i found that on the 270x i had before to make a difference over a 128bit 750/750ti/560 superclocked/260x despite it being the only 2gb card ive owned, but i have also had 64bit cards that felt slower than 128bit even at the same none gaming tasks, the 1030 may well be considered an upgrade if you guys are right, i just still wouldnt feel happy spending £65 on one when i could get a more powerful card that is fit for gaming whether its new generation or older generation and after the above with how my system runs the division, i wouldnt be wanting a 'just abit faster' card.


theres nothing wrong with me playing @ 1280x768 which is where i did very well with my haswell i3 and oc edition 750 regardless of 16gb ram, but the swap between res for game and window can be annoying and sometimes cause issues as its only more modern somewhat demanding games id need lower res for currently.


in the catalyst theres an Overdrive option that adjust the settings, is that just amd alternative to afterburner as both max the same figure? which if so i guess it means this card cant unlock to 5870?

 

[ExoMale]

Not much point in changing from a HD5850 to a HD7770, though if its a 2GB model and you can sell your 5850 for close to £20 then it's probably worth it. Otherwise just save up what you can and buy something you're going to be happy with.

its a 1gb model? i know 1gb to 1gb isnt looking like a point, but while the 7770 is still old, wouldnt it offer more performance overall than my 5850 and not quite be at the legacy driver stage? i seemed to have found a better driver from amd site than i could use for the 5770, for that i had to hunt google.

oh and im not unhappy with the 5850, i shouldve got one of these weeks ago before i found the 5770 locally, that card didnt do near as good as id have liked even for its age, but then i suppose the 5850 was chose for anno 2205 or mortal kombat X minimum for a reason.

 

[ExoMale]

Having more VRAM means you can use higher quality textures - even "older" games have settings that can make use of it. 2GB has been mainstream since around 2012.


You have to get out of this mindset - power usage has nothing to do with performance. A 75Watt 1050Ti that has no power connector absolutely crushes your 5850. Newer high end cards draw less that older high end cards - the market is only going one way, manufacturers face pressure to reduce power consumption, both from environmental legislation, but also financial e.g. to reuse products across various markets e.g. desktop, laptop, mobile, games consoles.


I didn't say that cuda core count didn't matter at all. The fact is though that a 384 core Geforce 1030 performs better than a 8 year old 1440 core Radeon 5850. The reasons why I've touched on above - faster clock speed, architecture improvements, memory compression, more VRAM.

The issue with the Radeon RX550 vs RX560 is that if you are spending £80 on a 550, it is worth spending the extra £20 to get double the performance from a 560. An RX550 isn't much quicker than a GT1030, but the Geforce range doesn't suffer so much as the pricing is better spread out - the 1030 is £60, and a 1050 that is likely double the performance is £110 or so.





What is there to get bored of? Graphics Cards aren't Pokemon - you haven't got to catch them all?

Surely it's as simple as:
is it fast enough? no
can I afford/justify something better? yes/no

Most of us have to settle for whatever we can afford. The "best" graphics card I have in my house is a 270X - is it fast enough? probably not. Can I justify anything better? No - as the low-mid range new cards haven't really moved on from what I have, and I can't justify spending £100 on a 5 year old card that does.

not sure if a reply i made via my phone to the first part ive removed from the quote(too big too respond to these particular mentions) got through, but if it didnt then it was basically me saying if i go against any advise i get given for purchases as such then its because i buy for right now if i can, i dont have an option to buy online more so for private sales, had too many issues from the bay for that nor do i always have the money, but when i have the cash i look for places within 50 miles that i can collect if the price is good or go to 2nd hand shop unless its a new item of course because i need/want the item that day or the next, there was a nice gtx 970 mini on gum yesterday for £70 but it was sold within half hour.


now on to the other bits of your quote..


1. i know how important vram plays a part, a 2gb 270x used 1.7gb in the division for my use before, my systems usually have a lot of video memory to share so 1gb not always that bad, BF4 and FO4 used under 1.1gb of my 270x, star wars never even touched 1.2, i play on high settings where possible and dont use any fancy settlings like gameworks or whatever, but what i meant by my comment was from people saying for example a gt 640 4gb or something(even a 270x 4gb i think i read about) is too weak to use that memory so its more of a marketing thing, im not saying the 1030 is using that for a gimmick, i was genuinely asking if those 1030's are actually strong enough for the memory it offers.

2. i dont know why you compared it to a game, but when i know how a piece of tech works, if i have the option to try something different then i would prefer to do it, like ive said, in more than a year i have had 3 or 4 gtx 750's one of them being a TI, i know what to expect from it, but its like settling for the safe option as a result, there are loads of graphic cards ive never got to own that are still capable to an extent, so want to experience them so long the prices are not stupid.

3. you quote 'most of us have to settle for what we can afford' which is exactly the whole point of all my purchases, if i could throw down £500 or even £200 whenever i felt like it i would have a much better system than my haswell ever was, all in all for everything ive purchase for the 2 old systems i own over the last 2-3 weeks i have spent roughly £166 (having an hdd with the first computer was a bonus but i already have a few same goes for windows)), that wouldve got me roughly some okay APU and certainly not the psu i have, granted the 775 is meant to sell to make back the cost of the acer, but still, there was nothing for that money worth buying nor was it spent in on setting.



also what do you class as fast enough? im not too bothered as such for fps, but if i can get 45-60fps on high preset @ fullscreen 1920x1080 then its fast enough for me as the gameplay is nice and smooth, not exactly something the 5850 can do, but i knew that anyways, i dont have a g-synce/freesync more than 60hz screen nor am i bothered about either so i dont have to push much.

 

[iB CoMpL3XiTy]

its a 1gb model? i know 1gb to 1gb isnt looking like a point, but while the 7770 is still old, wouldnt it offer more performance overall than my 5850 and not quite be at the legacy driver stage? i seemed to have found a better driver from amd site than i could use for the 5770, for that i had to hunt google.

oh and im not unhappy with the 5850, i shouldve got one of these weeks ago before i found the 5770 locally, that card didnt do near as good as id have liked even for its age, but then i suppose the 5850 was chose for anno 2205 or mortal kombat X minimum for a reason.

Take a look at some reviews, the 7770 trades blows with the 5850, depends on the game(s) and settings, not much in it in terms of performance. It is obviously newer and it uses less power and will in turn run cooler, up to you whether you think it's worth changing.

 

[ExoMale]

Take a look at some reviews, the 7770 trades blows with the 5850, depends on the game(s) and settings, not much in it in terms of performance. It is obviously newer and it uses less power and will in turn run cooler, up to you whether you think it's worth changing.

thats fair point, only seen the odd reviews, mainly if you got a 430w psu get the 7770 lol, mean its only £20, but if its not going to offer enough then might aswell get something better or something from nvidia maybe.

 

[RobinGopher]

From a decent local private seller you should be able to get a 7870, 7870XT (Tahiti) <£30 or even 7950 for £50 or less they were popular cards they did a fairly decent job, if a little greedy on power and were strongly related to later GCN cards my 7870XT used to just about manage 45-60fps in BF4 at 1920*1200 with fairly decent settings but could easily slip below that window, it also managed a good old stab @ The Division and Warhammer. Now it sits in a box under my desk waiting for me to be bothered to get round to selling it, I presume its not just me? 2nd User prices can be very odd, I sold a 5870 on the bay about a year after I bought the 7870XT to what appeared to be a shop for ~£50 - £20 over the odds to my mind but who am I to complain.