Donald Trump

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Caporegime
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Maybe Jono convinced one of the mods to doctor your earlier post?

I did see him briefly hanging around the mods' sub forum earlier today.
"The Democrat controlled House never even asked John Bolton to testify. It is up to them, not up to the Senate!" he said on Twitter.

Facts First: Trump's claim is false. House Democrats sent Bolton an official request to testify. He declined to appear -- because the White House did not authorize him to do so. Democrats did not seek to force him to testify, concerned about how long a legal battle over a subpoena would likely take, but they certainly did ask.
You know it's bad when I initially thought you were referring to what plasmahal earlier claimed. Trump and him are almost in sync.
 
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"The Democrat controlled House never even asked John Bolton to testify. It is up to them, not up to the Senate!" he said on Twitter.

Facts First: Trump's claim is false. House Democrats sent Bolton an official request to testify. He declined to appear -- because the White House did not authorize him to do so. Democrats did not seek to force him to testify, concerned about how long a legal battle over a subpoena would likely take, but they certainly did ask.
 
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Now you are being deliberately pedantic and childish to deflect and avoid the question.

You know full well i don't what he said when the desm called to testify, i was paraphrasing as that seems to be the fashionable thing to do.

Put whatever fantasy words you see fit for point 2 as he said NO, then have the guts to move to point 3.

They aren't fantasy words. The whole world can find out his reasons for not testifying. They are well documented. Do your research instead of making things up about him being busy, and then i will entertain your question.
 
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It's not a lie.

This thread has already established that only one person on your wish list was actually subpoenaed.

Provide evidence of the subpoenas for the other people? You won't because you can't, because the house didn't call them!!!!

Go on then, show us all here where Bolton was officially subpoenaed by the house?

If you can i'll backtrack my words , I know i won't need to.

Waiting with anticipation.
Seeing as you don't understand the difference or perhaps how a subpoena works, so it's on you and not Jono8 - maybe you could do us all a favour and backtrack out of this thread? I hope this doesn't count as me trying to force you out....

Edit - Republicans and right wingers making quick work of discrediting Bolton. I think he's as bad as they get but he can provide valuable information. Didn't know the guy in t-minus 5, 4.....
 
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Soldato
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They aren't fantasy words. The whole world can find out his reasons for not testifying. They are well documented. Do your research instead of making things up about him being busy, and then i will entertain your question.

Your deliberate failure to address the question/discussion says it all.

I gave you leeway in agreeing that the house can call witnesses and if that fails and the house really needs the witnesses they have options. Both you and the dems failed at step 3, so going to the senate and crying wolf does not wash with the masses.

People like you and the dems are handing the 2020 election to Trump on a plate.

Well done, if he gets in for another 4 years that's on the failure of the dems/you.
 
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Your deliberate failure to address the question/discussion says it all.

I gave you leeway in agreeing that the house can call witnesses and if that fails and the house really needs the witnesses they have options. Both you and the dems failed at step 3, so going to the senate and crying wolf does not wash with the masses.

People like you and the dems are handing the 2020 election to Trump on a plate.

Well done, if he gets in for another 4 years that's on the failure of the dems/you.

Lol, you simply cannot bring yourself to just amend your lie/intentional misrepresentation about why Bolton wouldn't Testify.

All I am asking of you is to amend your point 2 in the sequence of events with the facts as to the reason Bolton gave to not testify to the house.

Bolton didnt refuse to testify because he was too busy....

If I answer your point 3 without that correction, it undermines the whole sequence of events.

I'm just trying to get a modicum of truth out of you.
 
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Either provide the links or the post number they are in so we can look at them. You make the claim then back it up.



OK, this Lev guy and Trump are best buddies. lets get him to testify.
First off remember we have established Lev was deep within Trumps teams and was taking orders directly from Trump.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uplo...l_letter_to_hjc_-_new_evidence_attachment.pdf
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORq57XX0AIBzhh?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORq57XXkAAFnEA?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORq57XX4AIN7BL?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORq57ZXUAA__IK?format=jpg&name=large
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukr...ts-against-marie-yovanovitch-2020-1?r=US&IR=T

Confirms a person on the inside is illegally tracking, monitoring and spying as I said on the ambassador. They directly talk about what she is doing and directly talk about an inside man.

Notes from page 1. Get Biden case to be investigated. Combined with page 28. A direct letter to President Zelensky. Lev made it clear in other statements that this meeting he was arranging on behalf of Trump before the phone call with the goal to talk about quid pro quo and withholding aid + more in exchange for a political advantage for 2020.

This is only 38 pages out of the 1000+ Lev submitted as evidence. There are also multiple audio recordings but only one has been given out to the public. The house has the rest.

https://mvs.gov.ua/en/news/27445_Th..._the_US_Congress_House_of_Representatives.htm

“The Ministry of Internal Affairs released a statement saying it was aware of "the materials published by the investigators, related to possible illegal surveillance on the former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch on the Ukrainian territory."

It added that "with regard to international and national legislation, guarantees protection, safety, and untouchability for diplomats of any foreign state on the territory of Ukraine, including the representatives of the diplomatic corps of the United States of America."

“As you know, The United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence published notes and other documents stating that US Ambassador Marie Jovanovich was allegedly under illegal surveillance and her electronic gadgets were interfered by the private persons at the request of the US citizens.”

The person doing this takes orders directly from Trump and says Trump ordered it. We have direct audio recording of Trump telling him to get rid of her.

On top of all this evidence and more that I have not posted as I cannot be bothered to dig up more links that have already been posted and you ignored. All of this has already been posted before. Anyway now we have two hard core far right Republicans both saying its true. One of which was deeply involved. One has a manuscript and the other has a mass of evidence.

“OK, this Lev guy and Trump are best buddies. lets get him to testify.”
That's what we would like for the two hard core far right Republicans to testify but so far the Republicans won’t allow it as both of them completely blow away Trumps defense.
 
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Soldato
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Lol, you simply cannot bring yourself to just amend your lie/intentional misrepresentation about why Bolton wouldn't Testify.

I did. Insert what you like. you know full well We all don't know what that discussion was. I paraphrased something rather than leave it blank. Clearly went over your head.

All I am asking of you is to amend your point 2 in the sequence of events with the facts as to the reason Bolton gave to not testify to the house.

I don't know what the house said or what Bolton said. If you know, then tell us rather than deflecting. All I know is he was asked to appear, he said no in some way or another (I agree he may have said he was told not appear).

Bolton didn't refuse to testify because he was too busy....

OK, accepted, tell us what he said?

If I answer your point 3 without that correction, it undermines the whole sequence of events.

I have corrected it, over to you now.

I'm just trying to get a modicum of truth out of you.

you have it now, crack on.
 
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First off remember we have established Lev was deep within Trumps teams and was taking orders directly from Trump.

Who is the 'WE' ?

They were best buddies, OK but I don't see him within the white house, campaign staff etc.

Confirms a person on the inside is illegally tracking, monitoring and spying as I said on the ambassador. They directly talk about what she is doing and directly talk about an inside man.

OK, does not prove it was Trump as you claimed.

That's what we would like for the two hard core far right Republicans to testify but so far the Republicans won’t allow it as both of them completely blow away Trumps defence.

I don't see any fundamental issues in having witnesses called fairly from either side. I just think that if this was genuinely important, the dems would have forced witnesses they needed evidence from and got a better case together. The last 2 presidential impeachments took the time to get evidence together. This rush to impeach just looks to be a partisan power play in politics and to affect the 2020 election. Whether either of us believe Trump is guilty of anything or not, it has to be proved to the US electorate. If this impeachment trial is credible the people will vote accordingly regardless of what the partisan senate does.
 
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I have corrected it, over to you now.

.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obe...ness-impeachment-probe-asks/story?id=66636082

Attorneys representing the House condemned the Justice Department for its "attempt to delay" proceedings and notified the court of its intention to file a motion to dismiss the suit by next Tuesday. Justice Department lawyers also said they intend to file a motion to dismiss.

The case is the latest twist in White House efforts to block all former and current administration officials from testifying or otherwise cooperating with the Democrat-led probe.

Kupperman was subpoenaed by House Democrats on Friday. The White House, however, has maintained that Kupperman is entitled to what it calls constitutional immunity, arguing, "Congress may not constitutionally compel the president's senior advisers to testify about their official duties" due to the separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-to-people-familiar-with-his-views/ar-BBWq6CC

While other officials have complied with requests to participate in the impeachment inquiry without such a judicial order, Bolton is not willing to do so, the people said. NBC first reported that Bolton is willing to testify if the courts order his former deputy to comply with a congressional subpoena.

House Democrats requested Bolton’s appearance at a closed-door deposition Thursday, but he did not attend. He has not been issued a subpoena.

A House Intelligence Committee official said that Bolton’s attorney informed the committee that Bolton would go to court if he were subpoenaed.

“We regret Mr. Bolton’s decision not to appear voluntarily, but we have no interest in allowing the administration to play rope-a-dope with us in the courts for months,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. “Rather, the White House instruction that he not appear will add to the evidence of the president’s obstruction of Congress.”


https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opini...hand-witnesses-editorials-debates/4195846002/

The rationale for the stonewalling is supposedly laid out in a letter White House counsel Pat Cipollone sent to Congress last month. The "due process" argument in that letter, however, has been superseded by events. A vote to authorize the inquiry has been taken, and once-private proceedings are now public.

Much of the rest of the rationale is baffling, unsupported or circular in logic. It declares the inquiry to be invalid because testimony provided by credible witnesses under oath consists of “falsehoods and misinformation.” It declares that Democrats fear they will lose the next election. And it throws in references to the Framers and the Constitution much like a high school student might do in hopes of getting a passing grade on an otherwise incomprehensible term paper.



So basically, to summarise, The White House ordered everyone not testify, and some like Kupperman, and then Bolton went to court to get a judge to decide on whether they should testify or not.

So to answer your point 3, once those involved had refused to testify to Congress after being officially invited to, the next route is subpeonas which would have been challenged in court immediately . As many Dems at the time pointed out though, this would start a long and protracted legal battle which could have taken months, if not years and would have no doubt made it all the way to the Supreme Court. This would have been a pointless waste of time and there is even massive precedent from the Nixon impeachment that utterly undermines the White House's claim to absolute immunity and their use of executive privilege to block everything from Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon

"In a much-anticipated landmark ruling on July 24, 1974, the U.S. Supreme Court ordered President Nixon to release all White House tapes, not just selected transcripts, pertinent to the Watergate investigation. The unanimous ruling in United States v. Nixon found that the president of the United States does not possess an absolute, unqualified executive privilege to withhold information.[7][137] Writing for the court, Chief Justice Warren Burger stated:"

So the Dems instead decided that their case for abuse of power was already strong enough without these testimonies, and no doubt as it was a matter of national security and they want him removed from office, the sooner the better. With all this stonewalling, the obstruction of congress article of impeachment writes itself...

As expected though, the Republicans wont even begin to think about removing him unless there are multiple people who were high in Trump's circle/cabinet who testify against him. That is why the Dems now need to try and get the power of the senate and this trial to subpeona more witnesses.This is even more important now that we know what Lev and Bolton know. Those two must testify under oath.
 
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Soldato
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I'd be so happy if Trump finally got removed from office. Probably not going to happen but what a day that would be if it did. There's certainly a bit more chance now that Bolton is in the frame.
 
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I'd be so happy if Trump finally got removed from office. Probably not going to happen but what a day that would be if it did. There's certainly a bit more chance now that Bolton is in the frame.
Even if Bolton testified, he won’t because Trump and his admin will block it, Trump will not be removed.
Only way that will happen is if the GOP turn on him, which will be a cold day in hell.

The only way America can get rid of this stain is by voting him out but chances of that happening are slim to none. So just sit back and get ready for another 4 hrs of this nonsense aka circus. Where Trump will continually abuse his position of President to further enrich himself, his scumbag family and his scumbag GOP supporters and his so called rich buddies.

The ones who will not benefit are his die hard supporters but they are just too far entrenched in their support for him to see that.
 
Soldato
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“Who is the 'WE' ?

They were best buddies, OK but I don't see him within the white house, campaign staff etc.”
We as in all the people who proved to you that Lev and Trump are working together.

Lev was wearing a Presidential Service Badge which is awarded to troops who serve in the White House. He was at the Inauguration Galas a Whitehouse intimate dinner; he was at a small private group with Trump talking for an hour+ with talk about Ukraine policy and more. How can you say “but I don’t see him!!! “There have been tons of videos, photos, audio recordings, letters.

https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Igor-Fruman-and-Rudy-Giuliani-and-Lev-Parnas.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/1...arnas_at_the_White_Hou-m-37_1570411438426.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/resi..._1___1920x1080___30p_00_00_07_05_Still016.png
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-s...t/90900b36c2cb/sub-buzz-6654-1563717936-1.png (best one its a screenshot of his twitter feed location tagged as inside the White House and video of him standing next to Trump if you go to the original tweet)

I am still waiting for you apology or to at least knowledgebase all the times on how wrong you have been, not that I expect you do to that. You seem to be one of those people who can never admit to being wrong no matter how badly wrong you are.


“OK, does not prove it was Trump as you claimed.”
Why does Levs direct statement saying Trump was involved not count as evidence or help prove Trump was involved? He recorded his meetings with Trump and passed those onto the house to prove he was telling the truth. Why does that not count? We know Lev was working directly for Trump, taking orders directly from Trump and keeping Trump informed. Lev was deeply involved in the scheme so why does his statements not count. How do you explain the Lev and Bolton evidence away?

Why does Bolton’s direct statement that Trump was involved with his manuscript not count as evidence?



“I don't see any fundamental issues in having witnesses called fairly from either side. I just think that if this was genuinely important, the dems would have forced witnesses they needed evidence from and got a better case together. The last 2 presidential impeachments took the time to get evidence together. This rush to impeach just looks to be a partisan power play in politics and to affect the 2020 election. Whether either of us believe Trump is guilty of anything or not, it has to be proved to the US electorate. If this impeachment trial is credible the people will vote accordingly regardless of what the partisan senate does.”
Are you really that dense! The dems did they to force the witnesses and Trump blocked them from testifying or otherwise cooperating which combined with Trump refusing to hand over the transcript was the entire reason behind the Obstruction of Congress charge which was the reason Trump was Impeached. At this 2nd stage of impeachment the republicans again voted to supress them from giving evidence and again voted to suppress the full transcript. The Senate Republicans Voted to block witnesses & evidence including blocking the full transcript with a count of 53-47 against four separate motions.

So you agree how wrong the Republicans are in blocking evidence and how unfair the trail is in that the Republicans are blocking valid and genuinely important evidence and witness's.
 
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