DSG vs Normal Auto

1ofaKind

1ofaKind

1ofaKind

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Joined
10 Apr 2004
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839
Hi All,

Can anyone answer some basic questions (I may be talking complete rubbish but doesnt hurt to ask).

I've never driven an traditional auto before but I'm considering one atm - my commute is stop start annoying traffic and I'm becoming a lazy git ;)

Cars I'm considering are VAG 2.0t or 3.2 with DSG or something like BMW 330.

In stop start traffic it's my understanding on a normal auto you can just put your foot on the brake while in D or put the handbrake on. You don't have to take it out of D and it doesn't cause an issue?

But with DSG I'm sure I read that because it's a clutched auto you can't just sit with your foot on the brake or handbrake - you have to take it out of gear and put into N.

How are DSG's on hill starts?

Cheers
 
About the auto, yes, basically you just leave it in D all the time it isn't parked. If it's standing still for a long time, such as a traffic jam then I usually put mine into Park. Bear in mind while it's in Drive it will creep forward when you take your foot off the break. Neutral isn't really used for much from your point of view on an auto, it’s just a step between D and P 99% of the time.

I wouldn't put the hand-break on while the car is in Drive though, it'll be trying to move anyway and this could cause some sort of damage. Think of the hand-break on an auto as the Americans do, as a 'parking break'.

DSG boxes are basically manual gear boxes that change automatically, so far as I know, they do not have a torque converter so are not strictly automatics. It's probably not a good idea not to keep it in Drive for too long while you aren't actually moving, much like a manual, just drop it into neutral and pull the hand-break on if you're standing still for a good while.

As for hill starts. A DSG box, unlike an auto will of course let you roll backwards, but, most cars that use them also apply the parking break for a second or so when you take your foot off the foot-break and move it to the throttle, to stop you rolling back at all.

I have no practical experience of the VAG DSG boxes though so I can't really advise you on what they are like in particular, I am just speaking generally.

Edit: Reading back I can't believe how many typos I made :p
 
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As above. Also worth a heads up, the LCI gearbox in the E60 and I believe the new X5 is a manual box changed automatically but not per DSG stylee. The new Z4 has a DSG style box in the 35i SuperDrive which ahs 7 speeds. I want :)
 
Moeks said:
About the auto, yes, basically you just leave it in D all the time it isn't parked. If it's standing still for a long time, such as a traffic jam then I usually put mine into Park. Bear in mind while it's in Drive it will creep forward when you take your foot off the break. Neutral isn't really used for much from your point of view on an auto, it’s just a step between D and P 99% of the time.

I wouldn't put the hand-break on while the car is in Drive though, it'll be trying to move anyway and this could cause some sort of damage. Think of the hand-break on an auto as the Americans do, as a 'parking break'.

DSG boxes are basically manual gear boxes that change automatically, so far as I know, they do not have a torque converter so are not strictly automatics. It's probably not a good idea not to keep it in Drive for too long while you aren't actually moving, much like a manual, just drop it into neutral and pull the hand-break on if you're standing still for a good while.

As for hill starts. A DSG box, unlike an auto will of course let you roll backwards, but, most cars that use them also apply the parking break for a second or so when you take your foot off the foot-break and move it to the throttle, to stop you rolling back at all.

I have no practical experience of the VAG DSG boxes though so I can't really advise you on what they are like in particular, I am just speaking generally.

Edit: Reading back I can't believe how many typos I made :p
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A good summary :) The key point is with the torque converter - changing gear on a DSG will feel more like a manual - as in it is not as smooth as a traditional auto, especially when downshifting. On the other hand, it's far, far quicker at doing the actual gear change (as long as you are doing the predicted change) than a traditional auto.

With stopping/hill starts, as above you want to put a DSG into neutral. I believe new VAG cars have hill start assist but i don't think you'll struggle without it, unless you're doing some tricky parallel parking uphill!
 
[TW]Fox;13829675 said:
Are you sure?
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Yes :) It was one of the "significant" improvements offered by the LCI apparently. It doesn't hold you on hills, well, only for a second then rolls back, has a reduced torque converter presence, not removed completely, and is in essence a manual box changed electronically rather than its predecessor (e39 and E60 pre LCI) which was a mechanical autobox.

This is one of the fundamental reasons for the box being as economical if not more so than its manual counterpart.
 
I don't understand all this stuff about DSG boxes above, they drive the same as an automatic, you stop using the foot brake, you put it in D to go, they creep the same, they don't roll back the same. They operate exactly the same.

The only difference really in user operation is that the gear changes are quicker but not as smooth as a proper automatic.
 
I'm sure the LCI autobox is a ZF 6HP26, rated for 600nm. It is a conventional torque convertor automatic. It is not an automatic manual despite the fact it offers a manual mode?
 
Jez said:
I don't understand all this stuff about DSG boxes above, they drive the same as an automatic, you stop using the foot brake, you put it in D to go, they creep the same, they don't roll back the same. They operate exactly the same.

The only difference really in user operation is that the gear changes are quicker but not as smooth as a proper automatic.
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Well the only reason you won't roll back on a hill using the BMW SMG boxes is because they have gradient detection to prevent it. Without this you could certainly do so if the clutch has not fully engaged. I don't know if other manufacturers employ quite the same technology, I imagine they do, or very similar.

I was just speaking generally, giving a general summary of what they are like really. I agree though, practical operation of them is more or less the same, but it's worth bearing the little differances in mind I think.
 
[TW]Fox;13829805 said:
I'm sure the LCI autobox is a ZF 6HP26, rated for 600nm. It is a conventional torque convertor automatic. It is not an automatic manual despite the fact it offers a manual mode?
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I was initially under this assumption too and places like Real OEM show both pre and LCI cars sharing the same gearbox code of GA6HP26Z.

The BMW technical literature agrees the theory but is only documented up to 2006 which is pre LCI

http://forums.e60.net/uploads/1162137709/gallery_237_213_323991.pdf

LCIs are the TU (Technical Upgrade) model which are rated for 700nm generation 2 of the 6HP. You are right though. It is still an auto box but electronically changed by impulses rather than hydraulics in the outgoing box. i.e, there are no connections between the shifter and the box. Which means, I got the manual box bit wrong. Epic fail for me :)
 
Lucero said:
It is still an auto box but electronically changed by impulses rather than hydraulics in the outgoing box. i.e, there are no connections between the shifter and the box. Which means, I got the manual box bit wrong. Epic fail for me :)
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I would imagine that this is true for lots of automatics? The shifter for example on my '99 Merc is connected only by a loom....
 
I can only speak of experience with the DSG in my leon but I find it to be excellant.

Despite being a "manual auto" it is incredibly smooth, ignoring the change in engine pitch you can barely tell the gear has changed.

I haven't tested it extensively but it does hold on hills, at least for a long enough period for you to apply some throttle.

I haven't been told I shouldn't leave it in D whilst stationary but I do leave it in for short periods, any longer and I go to neutral.
 
Have to say that we found DSG awesome when my folks test drove an R32 with it and has made think if I were to get a VAG car that had it as an option I'd be ater a DSG model over a manual.
 
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