Electric cars for people with no driveways

[blun]

Difficult to see how they can "tax the living daylights" out of home charging without finding a way to prevent people simply using "dumb" chargers and 3-pin sockets. If they tax it too much, people will simply stop using smart chargers.

There is an alternative explanation for pushing smart chargers; they allow demand to be managed. The average driver covers 22 miles on an average day. They would consume less than 7kWh in an EV. Even if the car is only plugged in one night per week, it doesn't need to charge at 7kW to be full by morning.

This is absolutely correct.

The government will not try to charge tax on “car charging” electricity. They will charge per mile driven via an alternative method that will have nothing to do with the fuel the vehicle uses.

 

[McPhee]

Nope. The specification was written to allow them to tax car charging. There is a commons written answer about it from a couple of years back.

That doesn't really answer the point. Just because a system can be used for a purpose, doesn't mean it necessarily will.

It’s already being done.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...00-conversion-turn-lampposts-EV-chargers.html

I'm well aware of Ubitricity. But they aren't proposing to roll out DC rapid charging to lamp posts

 

[MagicBoy]

Lamposts. Almost every street has them on the curbside, at regular intervals, with sufficient power running to them. Councils need to start putting in charge points on them which allow for a few cars to plug in each.

Problem is how do you charge for it? Street lights are not attached to a metered supply.

Short version : Street lighting energy consumption is estimated. Long version is ... boring!

 

[WJA96]

That doesn't really answer the point. Just because a system can be used for a purpose, doesn't mean it necessarily will.

This is the government and HMRC we’re talking about. They’re doing it as soon as they’ve suckered enough of us into electric cars as possible.

I'm well aware of Ubitricity. But they aren't proposing to roll out DC rapid charging to lamp posts

And my post only mentioned DC charging because for anything over 22kW you need DC. The post I responded to was talking about a couple of cars at 3kW. Well, you can charge 2 cars at 11kW or 3 cars at 7.4kW.

 

[adam cool dude]

Hello! Yeah I do. And agree with the first sentiment; it just has to change and become the norm at some point. A handful of society will moan, even less will actually injure themselves (or at least claim so), but no more than moan about normal things generally.

It's far cheaper for councils to proactively enable homeowners to safely charge at home rather than installing enough public infrastructure to support charging away from home, be it lamp posts or communal charging spots.

Lol councils are skint and can barely do the basics. Where are they going to get the cash to install a massive charging network for EVs?

 

[WJA96]

Problem is how do you charge for it? Street lights are not attached to a metered supply.

Short version : Street lighting energy consumption is estimated. Long version is ... boring!

The same way that they charge for it now at every public charger. You install a smart meter on the lamp-post charger and you log in with your card. That then allocates any power drawn from the charger to your account until you stop charging and someone else logs in. It’s very easily done. Indeed, in the link I posted above, they’re doing it.

 

[WJA96]

Lol councils are skint and can barely do the basics. Where are they going to get the cash to install a massive charging network for EVs?

They don’t have to. They can either allow you and I to pay for the installation or they can sell the opportunity to a third party like a Polar/BP or another company. If we were smart we’d put a Kickstarter programme together to get the money to do it ourselves.

 

[nam]

Tesla model 3 performance. No driveway in London. Not a problem with the battery being so efficient and recently with all the lockdown I am hardly driving it

 

[MagicBoy]

The same way that they charge for it now at every public charger. You install a smart meter on the lamp-post charger and you log in with your card. That then allocates any power drawn from the charger to your account until you stop charging and someone else logs in. It’s very easily done. Indeed, in the link I posted above, they’re doing it.

Hardly going to fit them to every post then are they? If councils can't afford to cover social care costs or educate the kids they're not going to throw £1k+ at fitting power equipment to each street light for in case I buy an EV short of a large pot of money being handed out by Westminster. Maybe when they get around to scheduled replacement of the columns, but that could be 30+ years.

Might work in London. but anywhere outside the M25 gets screwed on Westminster money.

 

[Mrwong]

And as EV get more and more popular i can see many people who doesn't have there own driveway doing stupid things too tried charge them on there own cheap electric

Wireless charging

 

[WJA96]

Hardly going to fit them to every post then are they? If councils can't afford to cover social care costs or educate the kids they're not going to throw £1k+ at fitting power equipment to each street light for in case I buy an EV short of a large pot of money being handed out by Westminster. Maybe when they get around to scheduled replacement of the columns, but that could be 30+ years.

Might work in London. but anywhere outside the M25 gets screwed on Westminster money.

The most common route is for them to hive off the running of the system to a third party company. That third party company pays a fee to the council for the right to install the boxes then a small part of the profit from the boxes thereafter. You, the person plugging your car in, pay for all of this when you pay for the electricity you used on your account.

 

[Toothy1911]

Problem is how do you charge for it? Street lights are not attached to a metered supply.

Short version : Street lighting energy consumption is estimated. Long version is ... boring!

Apparently there is a way of differentiating between public and private supply. Potentially the special cables they have. There is some kind of metered / control box inline.
Yeah - It wont be the councils putting these in, but private companies looking to invest and make money on you charging using their system. I feel this could be one of those "missed business opportunities" I look back on in 10 years time.

 

[Haggisman]

Also remember you are not charging all night. On a standard home 7kw charger you replenish about 30 miles of range per hour so you might only charge for 1-2hrs.

What the hell are you driving that does ~8 mpkw and where can I get one?! Even the Ioniq, which is one of the most efficient, gets nowhere near that!!

 

[WJA96]

What the hell are you driving that does ~8 mpkw and where can I get one?! Even the Ioniq, which is one of the most efficient, gets nowhere near that!!

My Tesla home charger at 7.4kWh will charge from 20% to 80% (so 60 miles to 240 miles) in 6 hours. So that is 30 miles range per hour.

Possibly I have misunderstood your comment? I was under the impression that Hyundai/Kia eg. the Ioniq was good on range (for a non-Tesla) but quite slow to charge.

 

[Woden]

Wireless charging

Massive Qi chargers under all the roads

 

[Haggisman]

My Tesla home charger at 7.4kWh will charge from 20% to 80% (so 60 miles to 240 miles) in 6 hours. So that is 30 miles range per hour.

Possibly I have misunderstood your comment? I was under the impression that Hyundai/Kia eg. the Ioniq was good on range (for a non-Tesla) but quite slow to charge.

Eugh, ignore me, for some reason I read that as 30 miles in half an hour! 30 miles in an hour is doable if you're hitting >4mpkw (although in most EVs you'd need to drive like Miss Daisy to get there!)

I need more coffee...

 

[Nasher]

Wireless charging

Wireless charging is very inefficient.

 

[Haggisman]

Wireless charging is very inefficient.

Wrong. As usual.

https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-proves-97-efficient/

Are you going for some kind of record here where every single one of your posts about EVs is full of misinformation? I still haven't been able to figure out whether you're so indoctrinated against them that you refuse to believe anything but the most negative of information, or you have some kind of agenda and are outright lying.

I wouldn't normally mind, but the problem is that there are people out there who don't know any better who might actually believe some of the drivel you spout.

 

[Nasher]

Wrong. As usual.

https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-charging-proves-97-efficient/

Are you going for some kind of record here where every single one of your posts about EVs is full of misinformation? I still haven't been able to figure out whether you're so indoctrinated against them that you refuse to believe anything but the most negative of information, or you have some kind of agenda and are outright lying.

I wouldn't normally mind, but the problem is that there are people out there who don't know any better who might actually believe some of the drivel you spout.

So one source. A lot of others say still say it's inefficient. There are also safety issues with it...

 

[Haggisman]

So one source. A lot of others say still say it's inefficient....

https://www.slashgear.com/qualcomms...-technology-is-ready-for-prime-time-07435352/ - 94%

https://electricautonomy.ca/2020/02/26/wireless-ev-charging-advancing-ev-adoption/ - 90-93%

https://www.energy.gov/eere/videos/wireless-charging-electric-vehicles - 90%

Here's one which claims 85%, which I'll grant you is low...

https://electrek.co/2018/05/28/bmw-...-charging-system-convenience-cost-efficiency/

...but it's only 3.2kw, let's look at the efficiency of other similar power charging

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7046253

oh, that's funny, it's quite similar! 83.8% for level 1 (e.g. ~3.2kw from a standard 13a socket) and 89.4% for level 2 (7kw home chargepoint)

Let's see your sources then?