Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

bigmike20vt said:
china have the right idea WRT electric cars.
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well - subsidising battery production, natural resource land-grab, to wipe out competition (like PV's too) , & using cheap labour
... EU/davos only yesterday discussing fair controls on the market, following Bidens lead. do we want to increase trade deficit.

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reposting - dealer webisite - https://www.am-online.com/news/mark...predict-used-car-values-will-slump-10-in-2023

Yesterday (January 16) Cap HPI director of valuations Derren Martin told AM that used EV values were declining at a rate of 2.1% at one year and 10,000 miles month-to-date at the end of last week, compared to 0.9% for petrol and 0.5% for diesel and hybrid cars
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250k miles is definitely exceptional.

The 207 is 13 years old now (wow) and my car before that (s2000) was 20 years old.
The s2000 I put 70k miles on in 7 years. But started at 40k miles in its first 13

So they could have done the same miles but over time bills creep up. The s2000 was written off but was starting to look 'rough'. Bits of rust here and there. Invisible to passer by. But under the car it was there.

Newer cars are worse though. More electronics that can't be replaced. Sourcing parts becomes harder. Eventually, the price of a newer old car becomes more appealing.


Maybe current used cars (like 207 now) will actually last longer as used equivalents are much more expensive.

What would I replace it with? Nothing as good for same price. It's getting into 'finance' territory (ugh) which does open up many new options.

But I'll avoid finance as long as I can!

Unfortunately for me, I'd need finance for an electric car now
 
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jpaul said:
well - subsidising battery production, natural resource land-grab, to wipe out competition (like PV's too) , & using cheap labour
... EU/davos only yesterday discussing fair controls on the market, following Bidens lead. do we want to increase trade deficit.

---------------
[
reposting - dealer webisite - https://www.am-online.com/news/mark...predict-used-car-values-will-slump-10-in-2023

Yesterday (January 16) Cap HPI director of valuations Derren Martin told AM that used EV values were declining at a rate of 2.1% at one year and 10,000 miles month-to-date at the end of last week, compared to 0.9% for petrol and 0.5% for diesel and hybrid cars
]
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unfortunately hat isnt really just an EV problem. most car manufacturers are having many of their cars built over there anyway (and the general rule is the ones built in China are better built than the same car built elsewhere.

You make a good point about China that i wasnt really thinking of tbh.. but that is way beyond just EVs.

if we as a country were to for instance boycott en masse Chinese products and buy ethically elsewhere then that would be interesting (really need the whole of the EU and US to do it however)......... but just "just" use that stick against EVs and PVs whilst buying all the rest of their stuff.... its kind of cutting our noses off to spite our faces imo.
 
Bug One said:
Not sure that'd work for an older hybrid. They're more akin to an ICE with a kers than a proper PHEV that you can switch to exclusively use electricity.
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Except when you can't - most PHEVs can only heat with the ICE so in winter the engine's going to be running to heat up the cabin (or keep it heated).

You can pre-condition the heat on a few it seems, but only while still plugged in. So, if you do that just before you commute to work, then you're likely pulling 2-3kW outside of the cheap EV tariff window and so paying 6x as much, very quickly wiping out some of the electric saving.
 
413x said:
250k miles is definitely exceptional.

The 207 is 13 years old now (wow) and my car before that (s2000) was 20 years old.
The s2000 I put 70k miles on in 7 years. But started at 40k miles in its first 13

So they could have done the same miles but over time bills creep up. The s2000 was written off but was starting to look 'rough'. Bits of rust here and there. Invisible to passer by. But under the car it was there.

Newer cars are worse though. More electronics that can't be replaced. Sourcing parts becomes harder. Eventually, the price of a newer old car becomes more appealing.


Maybe current used cars (like 207 now) will actually last longer as used equivalents are much more expensive.

What would I replace it with? Nothing as good for same price. It's getting into 'finance' territory (ugh) which does open up many new options.

But I'll avoid finance as long as I can!

Unfortunately for me, I'd need finance for an electric car now
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One of the biggest issues with Telsa's at the moment is lack of spare parts. Some of them are sitting on the forecourt for months waiting for spare parts or panels to be available for repairs. So parts issues affect new vehicles as well as second hand ones.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
250k on an ICE is quite exceptional. And with only a clutch quite darn lucky.
Last time I looked the average scrappage mileage is under 100k.

When I used to have a transport guy reporting to me and a fleet of hundreds of cars, most had a significant repair in their 4 year lease. Now sure some of that is that people will often treat a car thats not their own as well, but even so...
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213k on my BMW 123d and the only repairs of any significance are an exhaust manifold and then just general bits and pieces, no exhaust/clutch etc although it is automatic and the vast majority of those miles were at a cruising speed on hour and a half commuting trips.
 
matt100 said:
213k on my BMW 123d and the only repairs of any significance are an exhaust manifold and then just general bits and pieces, no exhaust/clutch etc although it is automatic and the vast majority of those miles were at a cruising speed on hour and a half commuting trips.
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Which is what you would expect pretty much
Most modern cars will be mileage machines when used for an hour and a half cruising speed commute.
But that hour and a half cruising speed commute is again the exception

The average commute is something like 12 miles. Or was pre pandemic, could have changed since.

The vast majority don't have 90+ mile commutes in cars. (taking 1.5 x 60 as the minimum realistic cruising speed commute for 1.5 hours)

Although even then, your basically one decent bill away from a hard decision on scrappage. Turbo, gearbox, clutch, injection system, etc.
Plenty of large mechanicals/electronics there, and one happening doesn't remove the risk of the others, which is why most people hit a significant bill and go, its not worth doing it when I could face a similar bill in two months for another part.

The only cars I have ever seen that high mileage are people who do high and long commutes / business travel. Its a world away from the wear and tear compared to a car that does many frequent short distance commutes in traffic.

It used to take me 30 minutes to do 3 miles from the centre of Ipswich in rush hour. It took me 10 minutes if I left early. No doubt about which one was more mechanically sympathetic to a higher mileage before I would have needed to start replacing parts.
In fact it reminds me of when I was 18, my Dad knew the owner of a large chain of garages and asked the owner whether I was better with a higher mileage younger car or a low mileage old one. He was told 100% without doubt a higher mileage younger would be better. Almost certainly maintained and used for far easier long distances than an old one that may have spent its left hardly up to temperature, constantly stop starting. Some parts decay with age no matter the usage.

Anyway this really has gone of topic ;)
 
I wouldn't say 200k+ is particularly exceptional on the 'right car' - I've picked my last couple based on what I know to be a good engine (the BMW M57 6 cylinder Diesel) and they've all been fairly reliable.

First was a 285,000 mile E46 330d - ran for 18 months, then sold still working. Needed a thermostat and some prop bearings in that time
Then a 195,000 mile E61 530d - ran for 12 months, this did die due to water in the ECU (common issue I wasn't aware of, and annoyingly an easy fix but I didn't have the time)
Another E61 but this time a 525d has shuttled me around for the last 2 years, this was bought on 210,000 and taken to 237,000 with a couple of suspension bushes and a gearbox service
Now in an E61 530d (in a specification I've been after for a long time, the only reason I moved the 525d on) with 182,000 miles - no issues to report, and a rather clean MOT history.

Sure enough most 'throwaway' cars won't make it to this kind of mileage and it does need some careful selection - but it's cost me next to nothing to do plenty of miles over the last 5 years or so :)
 
Some people I know, including myself are seeing their energy DDs more than their council tax. Talking bands A and B. Until a few years ago, my electricity DD (no gas) was half-two thirds of my CT. Now its £6 more per month, before the govt £66/67 grant.
 
cheesefest said:
Some people I know, including myself are seeing their energy DDs more than their council tax. Talking bands A and B. Until a few years ago, my electricity DD (no gas) was half-two thirds of my CT. Now its £6 more per month, before the govt £66/67 grant.
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I'd say this is common now?

Even in band E my DD is near my CT and would be well over on government cap.
 
413x said:
I'd say this is common now?

Even in band E my DD is near my CT and would be well over on government cap.
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Exactly - we are Band E and through Winter our energy bill would be double the council tax payment.

Band E CT is £2,7k per year,
Average energy use prices :
  • Ofgem Price cap : £4,279
  • EPG :£2,500
So well within the range of Band E
 
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