Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

18-20 is considered the comfortable temp.

We have been playing with 18 and it feels ok during the day but in the evening it can feel a little chilly

The room specific temps seem to have differing temps which all make sense really

Living Room​
20°C - 22°C​
Bedroom​
16°C - 19°C​
Office Room​
20°C - 22°C​
Children's bedroom​
16 - 20 °C​
Entryway​
15°C - 18°C​
Corridor​
15°C - 18°C​
Bathroom​
22°C - 24°C​
Kitchen​
18°C - 20°C​
18C is very comfortable for me, maybe even a little bit too warm, I think my absolute perfect temp is probably 16-17C. But 18-20C is still fairly comfortable. Above 20 I tend to take t-shirt off. In this country we seem to have an addiction to heat. As I do think people warming up to 21-22C is excessive unless they have health reasons.

I got the 18C from the WHO.
 
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18C is very comfortable for me, maybe even a little bit too warm, I think my absolute perfect temp is probably 16-17C. But 18-20C is still fairly comfortable. Above 20 I tend to take t-shirt off. In this country we seem to have an addiction to heat. As I do think people warming up to 21-22C is excessive unless they have health reasons.

I got the 18C from the WHO.

You're lucky. I'd have 21-22c ideally.
I stick to 20c though in room I'm in.
 
It is isn't purely the space of the item, it is the usable space that the garden has. A few housing developers have seen issues already about position and size of the units where customers have not purchased based on it. There has been a reason I have not given names or similar though because I have also been critical of them and wouldn't want that tacking back to whom I work with etc and issues.

Also I am not really aware of anyone whom has been happy with air-con units either and almost all housing in the UK has zero air-con so I ma not sure why you brought that up as its not supportive at all.


I didn't ignore this, I have already said some builders are already doing such and there has even been links to such in this thread but this needs to be expanded and already stated the regs should have pushed harder to go further and sooner.

I have already stated that more needs to be done including insulation and such. But we was in specific discussion of the ASHP and alternatives. No benefit will have a lifespan of hundreds of years as no housing stock now is built with that lifespan in mind.

Why spend less with the ASHP system and add the others and not add the additional for the GSHP which is more than sligtly better also as noted previous. A 12yr return isn't a lot for the difference over the ASHP. Also increasing insulation is more costly than you think. It isn't the materal cost change. It is the phsical dimensions. You double the cavity thickness, increase the the stud wall thickness (to allow for controlled heating per room) and party walls etc and suddenly a site that is say 500 properties drops to 480 properties. So less return on the same land purchase means they would need to increase those house prices to compensate. I am not suggesting that all this shouldn't be done, however financially the GSHP with its return isn't as bad as expected once you consider such things.

There is a reason we are are renovating or knocking down older housing stock already from stuff in the 50's, 60's or 70's even. Housing life-span is only desiged for principles of 40yrs. Yes it doesn't mean that they are going to suddenly fall over but it means that to give them a better level of living/quality of life and such that in that 40yr period gutting and refitting is what is expected.

I am going to stop replying now because you seem to have a very central view on lets do the minimum or let others do the minimum rather than trying to push beyond which isn't really adding anything constructive.

Maybe don't dance around the question regarding your suggestion then. You still haven't explained the economics of your suggestion to use GSHP as the next step a house builder should make instead of investing in other areas of the building first (having lambasted ASHP as a half effort). Money isn't a infinite resource and, as such given house prices are already extremely expensive, to push further burden on buyers has to be justified. Therefore its more effective to pick the lowest hanging fruit first such as an ASHP and ensuring the building itself is as efficient as possible (thus reducing your overall heating demand and negating the need for expensive to install and slightly more efficient heat generation).

If you can't make the connection between an air con exchanger sat next to a house vs a heat pump exchanger then i can't really help you, go use google to see what they do. There exists billions of these units all around the world and somehow having one in the garden of a UK home is now a quality of life detriment as you put it. Its a little bit ludicrous. You'll find (as with most aspects of change) its not the existence of the machine thats the issue, its the communication and expectations that have not been set correctly. If a home builder decides to put a double unit in front of a window then thats on them for lazy placement/plot design.

Even if you gutted a building every 40 years for refitting that would typically not include insulation in external walls or the fundamental construction of the building where this initial investment by the homebuilder would be made. Neither is there a great need to insulate internal walls (which home builders have largely been removing anyway in order to sell more homes with less space). GSHP increased efficiency becomes largely irrelevant when you start building close to passive house insulation standards. The point being here the money is better spent avoiding the problem which is heat loss than spending to get slightly more efficient heat gain. Sure if you want to build a house where its going to -20 all the time then go for GSHP, it'll probably make economic sense. In the UK though that largely isn't the case.

Furthermore, you seem to be making things up, I have never said it was my view to do the minimum. You're the one expecting companies that exist to make profit to make irrational decisions regarding their costs and what’s effective (over the base regs which most will be adhering to for profit reasons), for then the buyers to accept that and pay more, in a market where buyers are already quite financially stretched. I'm the one asking you why you think a company like this should be so inclined to spend money on a GSHP before better insulation, given that regs do not require them to actually do either.
 
I'd certainly consider a heat pump if I had oil heating. I expect next house will be of that type (super rural). But I just can't see the gain at the moment unless it's a forever house. Most houses (ours for sure) would need radiators and probably pipe work redone.
come April23, if they just decouple electricity price from gas, in conjunction with ToU tarifs, perspective on HP could then change fast.


My main man. I love it toasty but everyone else complains so have agreed on 20. When I am in my cab at work I have it set to 23!
heatings a free(parasitic) add-on, in ICE cars anyway ... BEV's on the other hand
 
Maybe don't dance around the question regarding your suggestion then. You still haven't explained the economics of your suggestion to use GSHP as the next step a house builder should make instead of investing in other areas of the building first (having lambasted ASHP as a half effort). Money isn't a infinite resource and, as such given house prices are already extremely expensive, to push further burden on buyers has to be justified. Therefore its more effective to pick the lowest hanging fruit first such as an ASHP and ensuring the building itself is as efficient as possible (thus reducing your overall heating demand and negating the need for expensive to install and slightly more efficient heat generation).

If you can't make the connection between an air con exchanger sat next to a house vs a heat pump exchanger then i can't really help you, go use google to see what they do. There exists billions of these units all around the world and somehow having one in the garden of a UK home is now a quality of life detriment as you put it. Its a little bit ludicrous. You'll find (as with most aspects of change) its not the existence of the machine thats the issue, its the communication and expectations that have not been set correctly. If a home builder decides to put a double unit in front of a window then thats on them for lazy placement/plot design.

Even if you gutted a building every 40 years for refitting that would typically not include insulation in external walls or the fundamental construction of the building where this initial investment by the homebuilder would be made. Neither is there a great need to insulate internal walls (which home builders have largely been removing anyway in order to sell more homes with less space). GSHP increased efficiency becomes largely irrelevant when you start building close to passive house insulation standards. The point being here the money is better spent avoiding the problem which is heat loss than spending to get slightly more efficient heat gain. Sure if you want to build a house where its going to -20 all the time then go for GSHP, it'll probably make economic sense. In the UK though that largely isn't the case.

Furthermore, you seem to be making things up, I have never said it was my view to do the minimum. You're the one expecting companies that exist to make profit to make irrational decisions regarding their costs and what’s effective (over the base regs which most will be adhering to for profit reasons), for then the buyers to accept that and pay more, in a market where buyers are already quite financially stretched. I'm the one asking you why you think a company like this should be so inclined to spend money on a GSHP before better insulation, given that regs do not require them to actually do either.
I literally work in the industry doing this and work with housing developers at moment. I don't need Google thanks.
 
wow I would melt. we have 20 when we are in and 15.5 overnight. I am contemplating lowering the 20 to 18 or 19 but don't think the wife would be happy

I'd turn it down to 15c on for a few hours in the morning and evening only.

But her indoors would moan.

15c is fine.

I'm good to about 10c then I'll start feeling cold but just put more clothes on, it's not like being outside because you are out of the wind.

When I lived on my own for a few years in my own flat, I basically didn't bother putting the heating on at all.
 
I'd turn it down to 15c on for a few hours in the morning and evening only.

But her indoors would moan.

15c is fine.

I'm good to about 10c then I'll start feeling cold but just put more clothes on, it's not like being outside because you are out of the wind.

When I lived on my own for a few years in my own flat, I basically didn't bother putting the heating on at all.
Anything over 18 is far too uncomfortable for me, the kids seem to struggle over 18 as well. We're only putting it on for a couple of hours in an evening, goes down to about 12ish these last few days in the daytime when I'm WFH, can't say it particularly bothers me.
 
We do not use our heating now, not sure how long that will last tho. Our "frost guard" setting must have kicked in during the night as I see quite a difference in the cost of gas used overnight, previously none. Not surprising considering how the temps have dropped but it is somewhat surprising how that factors on the IHD.
 
It's 8am and already used £3 of gas to keep the thermostat at 14 degrees!
Jesus. Mind if I ask what kind of house you're in? Our IHD was showing about £2.80 as I left this morning and that included electricity for a bit of car charging, running a 1kW electric radiator for four hours, and gas for heating which had been on for an hour aiming for 19C and my partner had a quick shower.
 
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