Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

danlightbulb said:
An online solar calculator says I could generate circa 3500 kWh per year for an install cost of £6k. £6k is £115 per month repayment over five years.

I use about 2000 kWh of electricity per year, at 33p that is £55 per month. So even if all my usage was offset, it wouldn't cover the loan repayment.

That doesn't include batteries. Adding batteries would add much more to the install cost, and without an EV you can't get on the only beneficial tariff that I would need to get good nighttime top up rates (Octopus Go).

Adding batteries is no good unless I reconfigure the house to use electric heating/electric hot water, without doing that I can't offset any gas use. So there is more cost there.


Seems the only way to offset a good proportion of gas use is to use a heat pump. Install for one of those systems is £10-15k, possibly with a £5k grant. I don't know how much gas use it would offset, and whether it would work well enough in an older solid walled house with poor insulating properties. But lets say it offsets half my gas use, so 5,000 kWh a year. That is £500 at 10p per unit or about £50 per month. A £10k loan over 5 years is £200 per month.
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You're using like 5-6 kwh per day, which isn't much.

In my view you need to be using 10+ kwh per day to really make the solar game pay.
 
HungryHippos said:
You're using like 5-6 kwh per day, which isn't much.

In my view you need to be using 10+ kwh per day to really make the solar game pay.
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Yes the issue is gas use.

Im also not sure how Im using that much electricity either. I was tracking it in my old house and using 3 kWh a day. Nothing has changed in this new house, there are minimal electricity using appliances.
 
danlightbulb said:
Yes the issue is gas use.

Im also not sure how Im using that much electricity either. I was tracking it in my old house and using 3 kWh a day. Nothing has changed in this new house, there are minimal electricity using appliances.
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My house uses 200W always, not sure on what really, just a bunch of background stuff running :D

But yeah, the more you use the more you realise the savings.

I can't get away from gas usage either (combi for CH + hot water). But on a good day like today I can turn some of the excess power into heating via aircon, and likewise in summer I can do the opposite.
 
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Curlyriff said:
But for the most part you aren't saving £100 a month to pay out £75 a month, not even close. You are only breaking even on installs after 12yrs+ and that is without a loan and interest rates. You are assuming either very low/0% interest but most people on perosnal loans will be averaging a further 10-15% interest rate to borrow such monies so now you are waiting to break even for possibly 20yrs+ then. That is then assuming you even get approved for such large borrowing which a lot of people on lower income wont even be able to borrow.
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Not really no

You cant say in regards payback without some reasonable modelling.
If prices go up in April again (as expected) the payback comes down again. Its all a gamble but right now most people should be seeing 6 or so year paybacks.

I said it really suits medium to high users.
danlightbulb said:
An online solar calculator says I could generate circa 3500 kWh per year for an install cost of £6k. £6k is £115 per month repayment over five years.

I use about 2000 kWh of electricity per year, at 33p that is £55 per month. So even if all my usage was offset, it wouldn't cover the loan repayment.

That doesn't include batteries. Adding batteries would add much more to the install cost, and without an EV you can't get on the only beneficial tariff that I would need to get good nighttime top up rates (Octopus Go).

Adding batteries is no good unless I reconfigure the house to use electric heating/electric hot water, without doing that I can't offset any gas use. So there is more cost there.


Seems the only way to offset a good proportion of gas use is to use a heat pump. Install for one of those systems is £10-15k, possibly with a £5k grant. I don't know how much gas use it would offset, and whether it would work well enough in an older solid walled house with poor insulating properties. But lets say it offsets half my gas use, so 5,000 kWh a year. That is £500 at 10p per unit or about £50 per month. A £10k loan over 5 years is £200 per month.
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Yeah see two things kick in here, your a low user and solar doesn't suit low users as I said.
If of course the export paid a fair price (you can get this but its a risk) you would find it was much close to cost neutral per month and in 5 years time you would be pretty much getting that energy for free.
We need some more "fair" tariff development here.

For a pretty small amount (£350 or so) you can send elec to immersion rather than exporting excess solar, but you need a hot water tank of course which many do not have. If your combi this option is closed to you.

But this is not really the discussion area for here so sorry for sidetracking. It was really just an observation that many people could do their bit for energy security, but don't, and expect others to do it.
Then they will complain the others are making money....

Go stuff seems a bit random. Its supposed to be an EV tariff but its been around a long time and never been gatekept, only some rumour it is now, its certainly not 100% gatekept. You pay more for units for 20/24 hours anyway so its not without some risk for people who don't have guaranteed high usage.
Go faster however IS, and I suspect some people get them mixed up and hence the confusion. Go faster seems like it might have been pulled, but its never been openly published on their website from what I can see, just an upgrade option for those on go from what I can tell.
 
200sols said:
If you bought at pre crisis prices yes, but with the 'new' pricing its a lot longer than 6 years.
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Its not, I literally just did it.

As I said you need to run some proper numbers in order to work it out and literally every install is going to be different, facing, angle, number of panels, cost, options (such as bird netting), house usage, house usage pattern
So many variables its simply impossible to say its x or y without understanding.

I would say right now for a high user the payback could be 4-8 years depending on all those factors.

Even taking Dans figures above a system of just panels should be about £6k. 3500 x 34p = £1200. If you can use the vast majority of them your £6000/1200 = 5 years.
 
@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior agree with what you've said but for gas use, the only solution seems to be heat pump. That's where the money shot is on savings for a lot of people but the outlay is large there as well.

The main problem as I see it is firstly why we're exposed to volatility in the first place - the prime objective of our Government should be cheap as possible abundant energy for all, we shouldn't be in this position where we're seeing huge step changes upwards in energy cost and not having incomes keep up (more strikes just popped up on the news too, Border Force agency over Xmas). Secondly the lack of foresight in forcing housing developers to install newer technologies.
 
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Ahleckz said:
I opened all the windows in the three unused rooms (master bedroom, bathroom and her office (unused today) upstairs at lunch time. Doors shut, everything good. I just opened my office door to go get a coffee and all three doors were wide open whilst the windows still open. Heating going like the clappers.
:mad::o:mad::o
WOMEN ARGH!!!!
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wife is the same!

summer - hottest day shuts all internal doors and close windows. winter leave every internal doors open and complain it is not warm enough.
 
Doesn't the cap price only last till April now?, not up on that aspect as I'm not on the cap price.

It was to cover 2 years originally but that's now out the window with the Government backtracking.
 
Aircon can heat/cool but the problem is you can't replace gas usage with solar anyway, even if you had a heat pump. The sun doesn't shine all that much in the winter, and not usually when you need it anyway.
 
Troop said:
Doesn't the cap price only last till April now?, not up on that aspect as I'm not on the cap price.

It was to cover 2 years originally but that's now out the window with the Government backtracking.
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They're not revoking it but I think they're reducing it.

Target at the moment was £2.5K for an average home per annum. From April it will be more like £3K so it will be about 20% higher unit prices compared to now.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Its not, I literally just did it.

As I said you need to run some proper numbers in order to work it out and literally every install is going to be different, facing, angle, number of panels, cost, options (such as bird netting), house usage, house usage pattern
So many variables its simply impossible to say its x or y without understanding.

I would say right now for a high user the payback could be 4-8 years depending on all those factors.

Even taking Dans figures above a system of just panels should be about £6k. 3500 x 34p = £1200. If you can use the vast majority of them your £6000/1200 = 5 years.
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You still dont get it though, people are being quoted 10k for those systems not 6k. It changes the payback massively.
 
danlightbulb said:
An online solar calculator says I could generate circa 3500 kWh per year for an install cost of £6k. £6k is £115 per month repayment over five years.

I use about 2000 kWh of electricity per year, at 33p that is £55 per month. So even if all my usage was offset, it wouldn't cover the loan repayment.

That doesn't include batteries. Adding batteries would add much more to the install cost, and without an EV you can't get on the only beneficial tariff that I would need to get good nighttime top up rates (Octopus Go).

Adding batteries is no good unless I reconfigure the house to use electric heating/electric hot water, without doing that I can't offset any gas use. So there is more cost there.


Seems the only way to offset a good proportion of gas use is to use a heat pump. Install for one of those systems is £10-15k, possibly with a £5k grant. I don't know how much gas use it would offset, and whether it would work well enough in an older solid walled house with poor insulating properties. But lets say it offsets half my gas use, so 5,000 kWh a year. That is £500 at 10p per unit or about £50 per month. A £10k loan over 5 years is £200 per month.
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i would say i would only entertain a heatpump if it was to replace my gas completely........ absolutely no point if i am still paying a gas standing charge as well as the service / maintanence costs of a gas boiler... not to mention it is still not giving me that self deluding greenwashing vibe ;)

even then i would only be getting a heatpump if i was due a boiler replacement anyway..... there are lots of different technologies on the cusp of coming out now either for off peak mass energy storage or IR heating, as well as heat pumps, so unless i needed something right now i would be hanging back, and if i had money burning a hole in my pocket i would look to be improving insulation if possible instead...... (if you dont need heating on then you are not using any power to heat... keeping hold of the heat you have will always be the best solution to heating your home)
 
danlightbulb said:
@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior agree with what you've said but for gas use, the only solution seems to be heat pump. That's where the money shot is on savings for a lot of people but the outlay is large there as well.

The main problem as I see it is firstly why we're exposed to volatility in the first place - the prime objective of our Government should be cheap as possible abundant energy for all, we shouldn't be in this position where we're seeing huge step changes upwards in energy cost and not having incomes keep up (more strikes just popped up on the news too, Border Force agency over Xmas). Secondly the lack of foresight in forcing housing developers to install newer technologies.
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Agree mainly

Its complex, I mean where do we draw the line on government responsibility. Should all utilities, food, clothing?, housing, transport all be cheap and abundant? Thats going to result in a very different UK to what you have argued for before (small government)
Ie do we say we need to make ALL lifes essentials cheap by government action?

And yes replacing gas to elec for heating (and to some extent water) is a shift change. Its got many challenges as well, planning isn't great at the mo either. Your only allowed 1 heat exchanger (without specific planning permission) and it still has to meet certain other criteria in regards boundaries etc.
So its right now still got planning in the mindset of "pffft a few rich people wanting AC needs to be very controlled" to we need to make it so everyone can have say 2 exchangers and they can be near/on boundaries etc
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Its not, I literally just did it.

As I said you need to run some proper numbers in order to work it out and literally every install is going to be different, facing, angle, number of panels, cost, options (such as bird netting), house usage, house usage pattern
So many variables its simply impossible to say its x or y without understanding.

I would say right now for a high user the payback could be 4-8 years depending on all those factors.

Even taking Dans figures above a system of just panels should be about £6k. 3500 x 34p = £1200. If you can use the vast majority of them your £6000/1200 = 5 years.
Click to expand...

I can put 5k in my Barclays saving account and get £250 a year without doing nothing.

Another 5k in my missus account that's £500 a year for doing nothing or I could blow it on solar panels....... No risk and not worrying about the weather.
 
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