Energy Suppliers (strictly no referrals)

Soldato
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7 Dec 2012
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16,176
Location
Gloucestershire
If the cap wasnt in place I expect bulb etc. would still be in trouble, they would have had to raise their prices higher than the big companies, due to getting less favourable pricing on their short term deals, consumers would have migrated en masse as ofgem encourages people to keep swapping companies
The sensible companies hedged for their expected consumption, not for the additional consumption of hundreds of thousands of fleeing new customers. They'd have put their new customer prices up* to a level similar to Bulb, because they too would be buying on the spot market.

*just like they have now: hence no good deals for moving
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2015
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9,461
well - easy to call it after the fact
market was already being reviewed following breeze collapse , and as fatboy mentioned not dissimilar to rbs/fanni-mai scenario, where reformed banks now need more collateral,
no one had the precognition to anticipate the energy events that would unravel.
( Even this new dart space mission yesterday, maybe too late - can we avoid an extinction event from a colliding asteroid. )
[
ie. 3 February 2020 | Reed Smith Client Alerts Tighter rules for energy suppliers as Ofgem aims
A low bar to entry into the energy supply market has caused the number of energy suppliers to proliferate in recent years. While the influx of new suppliers has increased competition and exerted downward pressure on energy prices, there has been an attendant rise in energy supplier insolvency
....
]


Best minds had considered the risks, but thought small companies would establish adequate hedging without vertical intergration V
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../final-report-energy-market-investigation.pdf

would be interesting to know how other countries have dealt with energy monopilies.

Yep more capital (something I said in earlier replies), longer wholesale security of supply, are two things that might happen coming out of this.

We may still yet see a social tariff, things like that cant be done overnight.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Mar 2010
Posts
10,235
I don't understand the point your trying to make. Help those that need to be helped that's the way it normally works. What next capping food prices and nationalising supermarkets?

It's pretty obvious the point he's making. If there was no price cap, your monthly energy bill could have shot up from £100 a month to £500 a month. I'm not sure many households would be able to sustain such a price shock. The cap is there to protect consumers by forcing companies to sell at a loss when the cost exceeds the cap price.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jul 2010
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22,279
The sensible energy companies did. That's why they hedged.
Most of the big companies routinely do this anyway as it gets them longer term discounts and a price they can then budget for. They've done this for years, buying at fixed prices anything from 12 to 24 months in advance. Of course the now smart ones are saying 'no thanks' to supplies even 9 months in advance in expectation that the price will drop again but I fear the times of paying less than £100pm are long gone. Every supplier will be pushing their pricing to whatever the cap is and will try to tempt new customers in other ways. Amazon vouchers or gadgets or pre-paid credit cards etc.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Mar 2009
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5,677
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Nottingham
2 more gone tonight.

Entice and Orbit Energy with 5400 and 65000. Which means 24 since september and 26 this year in total i believe. Plenty more to fall so keep watching this space
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
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Llaneirwg
The cap needs to change. Gas needs to be paid for.
The question is who pays for the vulnerable?

I bet if we didn't have a gas price cap, but had a decent renewable energy supply people would be jumping on heat pumps. How many heat pumps and proper insulation would 1.7bln cover?
 
Soldato
Joined
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9,461
2 more gone tonight.

Entice and Orbit Energy with 5400 and 65000. Which means 24 since september and 26 this year in total i believe. Plenty more to fall so keep watching this space

Its an eye opener how many providers (*resellers) there was, way too many.
The sensible companies hedged for their expected consumption, not for the additional consumption of hundreds of thousands of fleeing new customers. They'd have put their new customer prices up* to a level similar to Bulb, because they too would be buying on the spot market.

*just like they have now: hence no good deals for moving

Good point, although Bulb would need to subsidise existing loss making fixed deal accounts so probably still wouldnt be able to compete on new customers and VRT's.

I think the bulk of this problem is existing 6 month plus loss making fixed rate deals, the cap been not high enough been the headlines though.
 
Soldato
Joined
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10,137
Location
Hampshire
Its an eye opener how many providers (*resellers) there was, way too many.


Good point, although Bulb would need to subsidise existing loss making fixed deal accounts so probably still wouldnt be able to compete on new customers and VRT's.

I think the bulk of this problem is existing 6 month plus loss making fixed rate deals, the cap been not high enough been the headlines though.

Bulb don't have people on fixed price deals, everyone is variable and at the price cap.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Bulb don't have people on fixed price deals, everyone is variable and at the price cap.

Thanks for that information, might explain why they survived longer than the others then and also why it got the loan.

So given the argument given earlier about why everyone only moves for the cheapest fixed rate, how did bulb get its customers?
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Mar 2010
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17,189
pyramid selling ... and tv adds near the end... and didn't Which and dear Martin recommend them.
Octopus can still cut off the consumer branch free, it's in a separate company; doesn't appear EDF has multiple companies.
 
Soldato
Joined
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10,137
Location
Hampshire
Thanks for that information, might explain why they survived longer than the others then and also why it got the loan.

So given the argument given earlier about why everyone only moves for the cheapest fixed rate, how did bulb get its customers?

Their price followed the gas price, they always offered a decent price unlike the big 6 variable plans. Obviously now they can't charge more than the cap and have been caught out. It's the cap that is not fit for purpose here IMO.
 
Soldato
Joined
21 Jan 2010
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11,303
Their price followed the gas price, they always offered a decent price unlike the big 6 variable plans. Obviously now they can't charge more than the cap and have been caught out. It's the cap that is not fit for purpose here IMO.
Seems to be working great - I am paying the best rate going and some random folk I don't care about are going bankrupt. Viva le consumer.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Nov 2010
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22,407
We were with Pure Planet. The Email from Shell said to submit meter readings to Pure Planet and keep DDs as normal until they take control in January.

However, we’re unable to submit meter readings to Pure Planet now…

Anybody here figured it out? Or just a case of waiting?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
12 Jul 2005
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Aberlour, NE Scotland
Finally got my final bill from Green now it appears I have to wait for a final bill from Shell before I get my money back.

While it seems that the cost cap has caught out the energy companies that have gone bust it does work as intended and that is to protect the consumer from extortionate prices. The thing is, what is the alternative, let them charge what they want and have people make a choice between heating and eating? There were already people having to make that choice before the price rises let alone if the energy companies were allowed to charge what they want. Even if there was a means tested tariff for the poorest there would still be people who would be very borderline as to heat or eat because the qualifying limits for means testing tend to be set too low. I don't think there is a easy answer to this mess. Personally I would like to see the lot of them nationalised and run on a not for profit basis where they don't have to answer to greedy shareholders but that's never going to happen.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Nov 2021
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186
Location
Portsmouth
My opinion, probably wrong and probably unpopular, is that gas and electricity prices are so high because of the large reliance on wind and solar in UK and Europe, driven by populist hatred of nuclear power. As soon as the solar and wind drop their production for whatever reason, gas turbines have to be fired up to fill in the shortfall. These use tremendous amounts of gas - of which there's already a shortage, thus driving both gas and electricity prices through the roof.
Build more nukes.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jul 2010
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22,279
My opinion, probably wrong and probably unpopular, is that gas and electricity prices are so high because of the large reliance on wind and solar in UK and Europe, driven by populist hatred of nuclear power. As soon as the solar and wind drop their production for whatever reason, gas turbines have to be fired up to fill in the shortfall. These use tremendous amounts of gas - of which there's already a shortage, thus driving both gas and electricity prices through the roof.
Build more nukes.
New nuclear power stations can take up to a decade to build. Hinckley point C only started building in December 2018, ten years after the government gave the go ahead. It’s not expected to start producing until 2026 and that’s if it doesn’t get delayed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
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10,626
The thing is, what is the alternative, let them charge what they want and have people make a choice between heating and eating?

An long term energy strategy that doesn't rely on the whims of Mr Putin turning off the tap and others buying up all the gas on the market. We've had options but successive governments have continually kicked the can down the road. Likewise new critical infrastructure is far too easily delayed through litigation in this country all it does it add cost as it just gets built anyway, just a decade later.

The cap is stopping a short term shock but in reality, those costs still need to be paid and we will end up paying for it one way or another. The energy companies that are left will still need to recover all of these losses, its not like they are benevolent funds is it? They still have shareholders to answer to. The 1.7 bullion going to bulb isn't free money either, we will be paying for that too.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Mar 2010
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10,235
Finally got my final bill from Green now it appears I have to wait for a final bill from Shell before I get my money back.

I'd not heard from Green in a while now, so reading that made me check and i did get a final bit sent through. Seems like Shell owe me £40. Wonder how much of a battle that's going to be as i've not even heard from Shell.
 
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