Energy Suppliers

BigBoy · 20 May 2022 at 15:51

robj20 said:
Shame there isn't a button on the meter you can hold to resync or something, doesn't need to be anything more than that.

Its not the Elec meter that is the issue, the comms hub and elec meters are completely separate and connect together by ZigBee transmission (even though they are physically connected it is only for power), so pressing buttons on the elec meter will do nothing.

What brand of meter has been install for elec and gas? some of the gas meters have a resync option but it is only available when opening the battery door, not something you can do without breaking security seals on the meter.

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 16:17

BigBoy said:
Believe what you want but my 22 years in the industry and my heavy involvement in account switching and incoming SOLAR customers tells me otherwise. This type of comment from the forums Karen's is why I hardly frequent here any more. It use to be a place of intelligent people who actually knew what they were talking about...

You've literally made claims that are totally incorrect and not corroborated by reality.

BigBoy said:
Lost yes as most suppliers use different accounting and account management software the transfer of most customers was done via email believe it or not. so yes things slipped through the net.

£200m lost because they use different accounting and "account management software" :confused:

Edit:

Confirmed plans include:

the launch of financial stress testing for suppliers from January;
requiring supplier Boards to undertake self-assessments of their management control frameworks and provide assurance to Ofgem;
strengthening existing controls on “fit and proper” requirements;
exploring how best to tighten rules around the protection of credit balances and Renewables Obligation (RO) payments (1);
consulting on new financial licence requirements in Spring 2022; (2)
consulting on requiring suppliers to pause expansion until Ofgem is satisfied that they are financially resilient before they grow beyond certain milestones such as 50k and 200k customers;

Literally Ofgems guidance from 15th December where they had a plan to explore :cry:

. I can see why you have such an angsty outlook on life if you've spent 22 years dealing with such wooly 'press releases'.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 20 May 2022 at 16:23

My understanding is they don't HAVE to keep them segregated.

Consumers demand energy suppliers protect credit balances

www.centrica.com

Its of course good practice to.
Its a somewhat difficult balancing act, I mean when an energy supplier has to buy in advance they know they will be supplying that energy.

As I keep saying, someone has to finance energy purchases which are heavily paid for in advance.
Its either, shareholders (unlikely)
Suppliers (unlikely)
Consumers (most likely)

If they are forced to only charge you as you use units, in arrears or real time then they will need a LOT of funding that will end up on the shoulders of consumers anyway.

When energy was mainly government supplied we all in effect funding this via general taxation, it all ended up in the great big government tax incoming and outgoing pot.

Edit to clarify. If they have to hold customers monies in client type accounts, such as a solicitor or insurance broker does, then the costs of funding will move from balancing off deposits to being an operating cost with associated costs being added to unit costs or standing charges.

Finance is never, ever, free.

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 16:25

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
My understanding is they don't HAVE to keep them segregated.

Consumers demand energy suppliers protect credit balances

Consumers demand energy suppliers protect credit balances

www.centrica.com

Its of course good practice to.
Its a somewhat difficult balancing act, I mean when an energy supplier has to buy in advance they know they will be supplying that energy.

As I keep saying, someone has to finance energy purchases which are heavily paid for in advance.
Its either, shareholders (unlikely)
Suppliers (unlikely)
Consumers (most likely)

If they are forced to only charge you as you use units, in arrears or real time then they will need a LOT of funding that will end up on the shoulders of consumers anyway.

When energy was mainly government supplied we all in effect funding this via general taxation, it all ended up in the great big government tax incoming and outgoing pot.

It's a shame two random people on the internet had to explain it to a bloke with 22 years experience, huh. Awks

Uther · 20 May 2022 at 16:28

robj20 said:
Had both smart meters replaced yesterday. IHD is now only showing electric not gas. Obviously no readings yet have to wait for that but I'm sure the IHD should work straight away shouldn't it.

My IHD has never shown the gas reading, EDF don't want to know as they are getting the readings so don't care.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 20 May 2022 at 16:30

dLockers said:
It's a shame two random people on the internet had to explain it to a bloke with 22 years experience, huh. Awks

Hes probably also technically right however.
Long term hedged purchases will be contractual and not involve large cash movements at the start.

There is not just hedging but spot buying and my understanding is that even the biggest also spot buy some of the energy.
Its I believe fine to use our balances for that purpose.

These things are always far more complex than people outside finance get when you dig into the detail.

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 16:31

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Hes probably also technically right however.
Long term hedged purchases will be contractual and not involve large cash movements at the start.

There is not just hedging but spot buying and my understanding is that even the biggest also spot buy some of the energy.
Its I believe fine to use our balances for that purpose.

These things are always far more complex than people outside finance get when you dig into the detail.

Yeah I flagged up front he was probably being 'grey' on his post about hedging. He doubled down with this one though:

BigBoy said:
There is no lost customer funds when energy companies go bankrupt, and yes the customer funds remain the customers possession (even though they are in the holding account of the supplier kind of like an escrow fund) there for they cannot be used for anything other than paying the customers bill.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 20 May 2022 at 16:44

dLockers said:
Yeah I flagged up front he was probably being 'grey' on his post about hedging. He doubled down with this one though:

Right, was hard to keep up with the crossed posts.

My understand on the "lost" monies is :
The suppliers who were forced to buy at spot rates above the rate they could charge would be buying say 100,000 units at 40p and selling at 30p. The total amount was mainly coming from consumers funds and as such they were in effect losing consumers money as they went.
They would have to declare bankruptcy when they had no funds of their own to meet their liabilities which would include balances owed to consumers that they could not deliver energy to compensate

Which brings me back to ofgem being the main reason for the failure since it was their rules that stopped the companies being able to charge a fair price.
They may have had a chance if they could charge a fair price as people came off fixed deals, but as they couldnt then every unit (practically) was losing money

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 16:47

I doubt they were segregating cash flow in any such way - the cash was simply there to fund operations.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 20 May 2022 at 16:48

dLockers said:
I doubt they were segregating cash flow in any such way - the cash was simply there to fund operations.

Cashflow (mainly irrelevant) probably but they would have had to keep their assets and liabilities straight (required by law)

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 16:49

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Cashflow (mainly irrelevant) probably but they would have had to keep their assets and liabilities straight (required by law)

Agreed. Cashflow only relevant when they "run out" and no liabilities can be paid back (i.e. Customer cash is gone just as much as any other creditors cash).

casper_uk · 20 May 2022 at 17:31

I know things are bad with suppliers having a lot on their plate... but dear god, British Gas are really the worse! I ended up with them as electric only, due to my supplier going under. Every month without fail, they try and take over my Gas supply, even though I haven't requested them too. I have constantly told them to leave my Gas alone, and also to EDF to make sure I don't get transferred out. They have only tried again, and this time EDF have let them become my supplier! Can't get a straight answer from British Gas, so have had to submit a complaint. I can't wait till my electric transfers to octopus and I can then hopefully have nothing to do with British Gas ever again! Seriously, one of the worse companies I have ever had to deal with.

BigBoy · 20 May 2022 at 21:17

dLockers said:
You've literally made claims that are totally incorrect and not corroborated by reality.

£200m lost because they use different accounting and "account management software"

Edit:

Confirmed plans include:

the launch of financial stress testing for suppliers from January;

requiring supplier Boards to undertake self-assessments of their management control frameworks and provide assurance to Ofgem;

strengthening existing controls on “fit and proper” requirements;

exploring how best to tighten rules around the protection of credit balances and Renewables Obligation (RO) payments (1);

consulting on new financial licence requirements in Spring 2022; (2)

consulting on requiring suppliers to pause expansion until Ofgem is satisfied that they are financially resilient before they grow beyond certain milestones such as 50k and 200k customers;

Literally Ofgems guidance from 15th December where they had a plan to explore . I can see why you have such an angsty outlook on life if you've spent 22 years dealing with such wooly 'press releases'.

The original requirements set out by offgem in 2016 when the FCA and offgem got together and decreed that any customer funds that the suppliers hold can no longer be used for hedging or stock floating to increase profits for the supplier is what I was referring to.

The guidance provided in December of last year over a year after the first energy provider went bust was provided to produce clarity of specific parts.

Don't get me wrong I don't know the inner workings as well as a finance expert would but I do understand direct mandated direct instructions.

My employer one of the three biggest in the country has since 2016 kept customer accounts in a form of escrow keeping customer money very separate from any cash flow. All of the big six operate this way, because they hedge 2-3 YEARS in advance not 1-7 days as the smaller companies did. Cash flow on laymen's terms is not a thing they experience, the retail energy market is very small in comparison to the commercial sector. (My sector is commercial)

As for the loss of data when SOLAR customers come over, this is a real thing, at one point we had vans full of printed forms being delivered as that's how one of the smaller companies maintained its records (one of the first to disappear). The computers systems that are used between suppliers differ dramatically, fortunately Octopus created a system called Kraken a few years ago specifically designed for the energy industry, because of SOLAR screwups many suppliers are switching to it, by January 2023 we will be using it. It's a huge investment in customer management. Hopefully for the betterment of the customer.

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 21:36

BigBoy said:
The original requirements set out by offgem in 2016 when the FCA and offgem got together and decreed that any customer funds that the suppliers hold can no longer be used for hedging or stock floating to increase profits for the supplier is what I was referring to.

The guidance provided in December of last year over a year after the first energy provider went bust was provided to produce clarity of specific parts.

Don't get me wrong I don't know the inner workings as well as a finance expert would but I do understand direct mandated direct instructions.

My employer one of the three biggest in the country has since 2016 kept customer accounts in a form of escrow keeping customer money very separate from any cash flow. All of the big six operate this way, because they hedge 2-3 YEARS in advance not 1-7 days as the smaller companies did. Cash flow on laymen's terms is not a thing they experience, the retail energy market is very small in comparison to the commercial sector. (My sector is commercial)

As for the loss of data when SOLAR customers come over, this is a real thing, at one point we had vans full of printed forms being delivered as that's how one of the smaller companies maintained its records (one of the first to disappear). The computers systems that are used between suppliers differ dramatically, fortunately Octopus created a system called Kraken a few years ago specifically designed for the energy industry, because of SOLAR screwups many suppliers are switching to it, by January 2023 we will be using it. It's a huge investment in customer management. Hopefully for the betterment of the customer.

Lots of words there to say I am right you were wrong, and calling me a Karen and stating your 22 years of experience literally made you the epitome of a Karen. GJ.

BigBoy · 20 May 2022 at 21:47

dLockers said:
Lots of words there to say I am right you were wrong, and calling me a Karen and stating your 22 years of experience literally made you the epitome of a Karen. GJ.

Yeah not really but that's fine you do you...

dlockers · 20 May 2022 at 21:49

BigBoy said:
Yeah not really but that's fine you do you...

Dude what you said was precisely wrong and you whinged like a baby, calling me a Karen. Own it :cry:

robj20 · 23 May 2022 at 05:42

So gas meter still isn't showing on the IHD or my online account, electric meter working fine.
However gas meter seems to be running backwards as it's showing 99999.504m3.
So my bill for that will be interesting.

theone8181 · 23 May 2022 at 07:22

robj20 said:
So gas meter still isn't showing on the IHD or my online account, electric meter working fine.
However gas meter seems to be running backwards as it's showing 99999.504m3.
So my bill for that will be interesting.

Well the first bill will be high, but after that you'll just get refunds :cry:

.

Vimes · 24 May 2022 at 11:07

This is what EDF is offering me, apart from their std variable tariff..

......exit fees are somewhat expensive. We'll probably just sit it out on the variable tariff.

Richie · 24 May 2022 at 13:22

Price cap expected to rise from £1,971 to £2,800 in Oct.

Completely unsustainable and there is a high chance of people literally freezing to death over Winter.