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Environmental change - What can we do?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Avenged7Fold, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,629

    Location: Surrey

    Humanity has wiped out 60% of all animals since 1960

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...cWb9S4b0EbHBO0e0-dlZrrlese3OxidZO9fsT51OVedZ0


    I certainly have become more environmentally conscious these last few years. The gf is a conservation ecologist and pescatarian and i have ended up cutting my meat consumption this year by a fair amount because of what i have learn from her. I have also become incredibly aware of all the plastic i buy and throw away.

    It never struck me how many resources the meat industry took up. 77% of agricultural land being used for feeding or raising animals for consumption. Lets also not forget the contribution to greenhouse gasses as well as the amount of water and fuel used.

    [​IMG]


    We are at a tipping point, many have thought we have gone over it. We wont completely wipe out life on earth but we are certainly on our way to making things uninhabitable for ourselves and future generations.


    Has anyone else changed their habits or have changed their habits?

    Are you doing anything to push for environmental change?
     
  2. DrToffnar

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2013

    Posts: 3,017

    I think changing things on a personal level is about all we can really do now (as well as lobbying for change from corporations to reduce CO2 emissions and what not).

    Much like yourself, I tend not to eat that much meat anymore and when I do it's from my local farm shop, where you can literally look out their window and see what's going to be on the shelves next week walking around. Sure, it's more expensive when you buy from source like that, but the meat in general is much better in quality and it works out about the same when I consider what I used to spend on meats everyday. I don't drive either and am exceptionally conscious about what materials are used in any clothing I'm looking to buy (the fashion industry is another big culprit that never seems to get called out as much as it should).

    People think making a difference only comes when you take to the extremes like Veganism or rallies every weekend, but really its just about being more principled and conscientious in how you live your life day to day.
     
  3. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,629

    Location: Surrey

    I agree. I think when people tout veganism and such as the only option it makes it unpalatable to the normal person and makes it harder to convert people to a more sustainable option.

    Change the public attitude and the fast food industry will change to match it for the sake of its own profits, the government will introduce taxes and restrictions to win the votes of their environmentally friendly voter base.
     
  4. DrToffnar

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2013

    Posts: 3,017

    That's exactly it. People say that the big nasty 'corporations' hold all the power and that there's very little that can be done to alter how things are done.

    "It's going to be killed/farmed anyway so I might as well have at it!"

    Twaddle. being a responsible consumer isn't just necessary, it's a moral duty.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,957

    There are what? several hundred meat products at any given shop dependent on size of said shop? vs potentially a few dozen vegan/vegetarian options?

    I'm afraid to say that although it's the consumers choice, the consumer is also a ******* idiot that the government needs to force the issue.
     
  6. DrToffnar

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2013

    Posts: 3,017

    Being more environmentally friendly doesn't mean you have to cut meat our of your diet entirely, just cutting it down to no more then 3 times in a given week whilst making every effort to source it from a truly organic vendor (preferably local).

    I see your point though, people do definitely need to be more educated and/or possess a little willpower.
     
  7. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,629

    Location: Surrey

    The government could force the issue by really clamping down on crap, unethically sourced imports but they cant do that without riots.

    I reduced My red meat consumption massively from last year mainly due to a few reasons. Cooking and eating with my pescatarian partner as well as tuning my diet to suit my gym goals. I reduced the amount of meat i ate in overall, ended up eating meat with a lower environmental footprint and ended up with a far better balance of foods.

    I keep an eye on my Macros every day and hit as much or more protein than before my change. I've noticed that a lot of the stuff i ate before, be it bought or prepared myself were poor use of my days calories and essentially considered junk for someone that was in my position fitness wise. I now feel better for it, look better for it, generally feel more satisfied and save a fair bit of cash too. Not at all tempted to go back into my old habits.
     
  8. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,591

    Population cull? reach to the stars? so as to reduce the burden on Earth.

    There isn't much hope without a global conscience with people at every level of society/industry taking a more responsible approach and more able and willing to think bigger. That isn't to say I think individually we should say **** it because there is no hope. The only way people will wake upto it is when it starts to smack them in the face when trying to go about their daily life and then they will complain... (by which time it will be far too late).

    With the warmer than usual weather we had in the middle of the year one of the farmers around here (free of charge) opened up access to a spot near a river on his land including putting in picnic tables and bins - end of the first day the ground and bushes around it were strewn with discarded rubbish of all sorts - 3 days later he threatened to close access again.
     
  9. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,213

    I have also reduced the amount of meat I eat, but doing this as a longer slower process and making sure not to replace meat with dairy (which I am slowly cutting down as well). I now eat meat 4 times a week, with an aim to get this down to 1 or 2 including fish. I try to buy local meats and produce, seasonal vegetables. I used to have a subscription to a local farm vegetable delivery which was great, but now I live outside a big city postage isn't free so the cost is a little too much.

    We use public transport wherever ever possible, and try to avoid commuting to work when we can. Although we have a combustion engine car now, I will liekly swap to full electric in a few years.
    I am renting otherwise I would be installing solar panels. Some of the houses I have looked at have a negative energy bill, getting 500-1K back. With an eletric car you can end up in a situation of not paying anythign for house lighting/heating, and nothing to run a car.
     
  10. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 19,021

    Location: County Durham

    I'm sure British Gas and other energy companies are going to be just fine with that in the UK.

    Technology is obviously going to help but the problem is only going to get worse with population growth and little to no change in culture, we're getting more materialistic if anything.
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,957

    Frankly what the UK does or does not do, matters diddly squat in the grand scheme of things, India and Africa want's what China has and will do that the dirtiest ******* way possible if it's the fastest way. (not that they don't deserve it, but clearly it's simply impossible for them to achieve without destroying everything)

    Envy from the poor and arrogance from the rich keeps any solution from being individualistic.
     
  12. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,144

    Location: La France

    This is something most don’t seem to understand. Unless India, Asia and the Yanks don’t change their ways, what Europe does makes the cube root of **** all difference.
     
  13. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,385

    If only there was a way to see alternate time-lines.

    Imagine if Africa had never been plundered by the UK, Dutch, French, Spanish etc with slavery and the imposition of religion on their cultures. I imagine they would be in a better state than they are now, maybe the ivory trade wouldn't have become a big thing etc.
     
  14. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,144

    Location: La France

    You do realise that Africans were quite happliy enslaving each other long before the Europeans rocked up?
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,385

    Yes I am aware, it's what a lot of primitive cultures did.

    Not on the industrial scale of the slave-trading that went on when Europe was involved, with their technological advancements (guns, ships etc)
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,957

    Well lets be honest here, they were barely medieval at the best of times (big population centers that had mild contact with explorer/trade vessels) before we arrived in full, though i consider North Africa a different thing altogether as it is too close to Europe to be unhinged from it.

    I believe this particular hypothetical is simply impossible without a deus ex machina device to get over the fact that temperate populations have such a massive advantage over sub-par habitats that it would just be imaginary.

    I think also the worst thing to happen after colonisation was to leave the way we did, leaving Rhodesia (a country that could have been the richest nation on earth) to turn into poor Zimbabwe, but whatever, that's the great thing about freedom.

    /saying this from the comfort of my temperate af climate, slightly biased.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  17. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,591

    Well yeah they aren't exactly going anywhere left to run themselves to be brutal - in many cases it is descending into more and more short term thinking and divisive tribalism.
     
  18. Avenged7Fold

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 12, 2012

    Posts: 11,629

    Location: Surrey

    While yes you can say without China/India/US changing their habits, we cant hope to succeed but it can contribute to a greater change even across the water, just by affecting the market and different food fashions.

    The US eats more red meat than ever overall but consumption is down per person by a third since the 70s despite it being cheaper and easier to go heavy on the meat. China is introducing huge environmental policies and investment in green movements as of recent. Arguably Chinas attitude toward the environment is improving faster than most nations.

    China, india and such produce for the rest of the world. Make poor environmental ethics unpalatable to foreign markets and these foreign markets may be pressured to choose from other manufacturers, foreign governments may even introduce import restrictions.

    We saw similar when public reaction to poor animal ethics and questionable quality food has led to regulations and practices changing for importers as well as producers of domestically reared meat.
     
  19. jimjamuk

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 30, 2007

    Posts: 2,820

    Location: Bristol, UK

    I dont know why the gov just doesnt insist every new house has solar installed (yes I know its not the most efficient where we live) but it sends a message that we are going green. Chna's pollution levels are pushing them to clean themselves up. Its almost like every country needs to go through a mini industrial revolution and come out the other side before we can really start sorting things out
     
  20. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,591

    Is this thread intended to be specifically about environmental as in pollutants entering food chain etc, (not so much climate change) impact or covering both?

    If we really care we should be completely changing the way we build houses in both approach to making the best use of the land space wise but also built in resistance to climate change (floods, rising water level, drought, wind) and growing space as well as localised renewable energy generation and more efficient use of power. But no one wants to go to that level of upheaval and cost unless forced to and if it comes to having to do it out of force of circumstance it is really already too late.